Don't Feed the Fear
Welcome to "Don't Feed the Fear," where licensed psychologist Dr. Amanda Whitehouse offers expert guidance on managing the social and emotional challenges of food allergies and related conditions. Tune in for compassionate advice, practical strategies, and inspiring stories to help you navigate anxiety and trauma with confidence and resilience.
For more info on resources from Dr. Whitehouse, go to www.DrAmandaWhitehouse.com
Theme song: The Doghouse by Kyle Dine, www.kyledine.com
Used with permission from the artist
Don't Feed the Fear
Attachment Styles and Coping Skills with Destiny Davis, the Chronic Illness Therapist
Destiny Davis, the Chronic Illness Therapist, joins me to discuss the powerful connection between attachment styles and coping mechanisms for managing food allergy anxiety and trauma. Together, we explore how attachment patterns—secure, anxious, avoidant, and disorganized—influence emotional regulation and stress responses in individuals with food allergies and those caring for them.
The conversation explores how understanding one’s attachment style can help build healthier coping strategies, improve relationships, and reduce anxiety in challenging situations like allergen exposure and medical trauma. Destiny also provides practical tips for parents and individuals to recognize their attachment styles and effective tips for managing anxiety.
Destiny offers clinical insight and accessible advice for anyone looking to deepen their self-awareness and enhance their coping skills, whether they are managing food allergies themselves or supporting a loved one.
Episode Highlights:
-Attachment styles and our coping skills
-Mindfulness
-ACE strategy from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT): Acknowledge/Accept, Come back into my body, Engage with the world/my values
-Brene Brown: FFT (the [Fricking] First Time)
Quotes:
- "Pay attention to what your symptoms are without trying to make meaning" (a.k.a., constantly searching for THE diagnosis.)
- “Mindfulness is not a way to cure your anxiety. It’s a way to pay attention to your anxiety.”
- “Typically, if you are the type of person that fearfully moves toward a problem, you are likely more anxiously attached. And if you fearfully move away from problems, you're more avoidantly attached. Securely attached is when you know how to ebb and flow and move toward and away as appropriate, and there's not a lot of anxiety with it. It's more just a feeling of sureness and calmness...Fight is moving toward a problem, flight is moving away."
Action steps:
- Listen to the Chronic Illness Therapist Podcast: Podcast links — The Chronic Illness Therapist
- Go to Destiny’s website for groups and other opportunities: The Chronic Illness Therapist
- Check out Brene Brown’s work: Brené Brown (brenebrown.com) (I highly recommend starting with the book Atlas of the Heart)
#FoodAllergyAnxiety #AnxietyRelief #TraumaRecovery #AttachmentStyles #CopingSkills
Special thanks to Kyle Dine for permission to use his song The Doghouse for the podcast theme. www.kyledine.com
You can find Dr. Whitehouse at www.DrAmandaWhitehouse.com
or on Facebook (Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, Food Allergy Anxiety Psychologist)
typically, if you are the type of person that fearfully moves toward a problem, you are likely more anxiously attached. And if you fearfully move away from problems, you're more avoidantly attached. attached is when you know how to Ebb and flow move toward in a way as appropriate, and there's not a lot of anxiety filled with it. It's more just a feeling of sureness of calmness. hard struggles. And so fight or flight, fight is moving toward that, toward a problem. Flight is moving away.
Speaker:Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we dive into the complex world of food allergy anxiety. I'm your host, Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, food allergy anxiety psychologist and food allergy mom. Whether you're dealing with allergies yourself or supporting someone who is, join us for an empathetic and informative journey toward food allergy calm and confidence.
It's becoming more common these days to hear, talk about our attachment styles. If we're securely attached, avoidant, anxious, how our early childhood experiences affect us throughout our lives and in our relationships. But what does that have to do with our anxiety? And what does that have to do, especially with food allergies. Destiny Davis, the chronic illness therapist is here to help us understand just that destiny is a licensed professional counselor in Georgia. She, someone living with chronic pain and illness, and she's also the mother of young children. Destiny has a private practice where she specializes in helping people with chronic pain and illness. And she also has a podcast on the topic. She specializes in working with people with hard to diagnose health issues. And working on things like coping with their pain, managing their stress, building healthier relationships and healing, the wounds from their experiences. I'm so excited to have destiny here to talk to us today. Because in the allergy world, sometimes we feel like we're alone and other people with allergies are the only ones who get it, but destiny and I explore in today's conversation. How. There is overlap and what the commonalities are and what we have to learn and having common with other people who are also managing chronic conditions. Destiny is here to give us her best tips and ideas on what she has learned from her experience that can help us with. What's on our plates.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:thank you so much for being here with me I'm really excited to have you bring a different perspective because obviously here on my show, we've been talking so much about food allergies, and I feel like you can broaden the conversation for us and bring in some tools and things that are helpful for us I'm really looking forward to talking about everything.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Definitely.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Would you mind starting just by telling us a little bit about how you got into, you know, your specialization and chronic illness and, and then how you ended up starting your podcast.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:yeah. So, I'm a licensed, professional counselor in the state of Georgia. I specialize in chronic illness and along with that comes a lot of, eating food fears bit different than I think, like living with food allergy, which we can get into. But, I had my own kind of mysterious chronic pain, chronic illness symptoms. I'm never really I did get a, like a Lyme disease diagnosis, but even that diagnosis is a little bit controversial in the medical world. And so I just found myself, a space where there's so many, misunderstood diagnoses and I don't claim to know or understand or have the answers to all of them, but things like fibromyalgia, MCAS, POTS, Ehlers Danlos syndrome, Lyme disease, stuff like that, stuff that people. Historically have just been, told was all in their head. And then now we have more information about it. even like with COVID people at the beginning, we're trying to say long COVID isn't a thing, y'all are ridiculous. And then now like it's pretty accepted, but. At the beginning of that us, those of us with a Lyme diagnosis were like on our tiptoes, just like waiting to see what would happen.'cause it was a very similar, where chronic Lyme is considered not a thing, but then it is in like holistic circles. it's very confusing. and again, I still don't claim to have any, any of the answers around that. But I do help my clients deal with living with confusion, living with not knowing, living with the doubt. Living with maybe over identifying sometimes with a particular illness, because it has the most answers, even though it might still not fully fit what they're experiencing, but what they're experiencing doesn't have answers. So that's where some of that can come in. so that's a little bit about my works. Yeah. So far.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah. and I find, you know, most of us in this field, we laugh because It's me search instead of research. Like we just always end up whatever our lives bring. That's what we learn about. And then it, it just unfolds in our work naturally. It seems.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, that is a perfect way. Yeah. I am going down a path right now where I'm trying to learn more about, for example, there's this one, immunologist on Instagram and she talks a lot, she has some foundation about Lyme disease, myths and misconceptions and disinformation. And I'm trying to learn more in that realm because. I think that the answers almost always lie in the middle ground. I know what everyone says on the, holistic side and what the rhetoric is there. And so now I'm trying to learn the rhetoric on the other side, so that I can then come to a balanced perspective. So that's like my current, uh, thing that I'm doing.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Right, right. Kind of get both sides so you can have a comprehensive. But there's always more unfolding. There's always more information. And I think that's another, you know, that's a good thing. We want more information. But that's another commonality with the food allergies is that there's, we don't understand everything fully yet and there's always more to learn. And then you kind of, at least a lot of people swing between, I want to know everything. I have to stay on top of it. And then we get overwhelmed and it's too much. We can't take it in and process it.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah. And I think the only way to be able to stay up to date on new research and keep learning without falling into that trap of over researching to the point of anxiety is by having a non attachment to the outcome. So you're not researching to find a specific answer to a thing to back up a point you already want to make. And you're also not desperate, desperate for a cure or some specific answer. If you are, then the research is going to be filled with tension, anxiety. You're going to be bracing the whole time. You're probably going to have things like headaches and IBS symptoms. If that's happening as you're researching, then it's time to take a step back. And then once we kind of can ground ourselves in the reality of not knowing, then we can start searching for information again, which is a little bit, I think counterintuitive, but that's how I, how I can stay. Researching and reading without falling into that trap. That, that despair trap.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:I love that you tied that to the body symptoms we don't know when to stop. We don't know how to gauge, right? But but if we are in touch with our bodies, they're telling us where the line is and where too much is Can you expand on that and talk not just with reading and researching but all of this concept of like how we get we get so hooked on Finding the answer right the definitive answer the diagnosis for food allergies. A lot of times it looks like yes, you have food allergies There's some chronic stomach pain coming along with it. Is it part of the food allergies or is it something? There's, there's throat tension. Is it anxiety? Is it a psychosomatic symptom or is it something else? And then, and that's where a lot of the clients I work with. dive down. So talk to me about how you address that with your clients, please.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah. Well, first defining psychosomatic, because I think people, it has been used in the context of it's all in your head. And I still have clients, like say, I don't know if this is psychosomatic or something else. And, and they really are saying I don't know if this is real or not. Psychosomatic symptoms are real when you're scared and you brace and then if you're scared 24 7 and so you're bracing a lot, you're really tight. Your muscles are all tight. Your heart rate stays a little bit more elevated than it should. Maybe you're sweating, whatever your anxiety symptoms are. You have to kind of figure that out for yourself because they present differently in everyone. If you're constantly in that anxious mode, that is going to produce, let's stick with like IBS. If you're constantly bracing, that is going to do something to your intestines. And so now, is it the food or is it anxiety? That doesn't mean it's in your head. The anxiety is real. And the anxiety creates a physical thing, like food can create mental symptoms. If we don't get enough of certain nutrients or too much of certain nutrients, we can get depressed or anxious. If you've ever had too much coffee, you know what that's like. You're jittery and you feel like you're going to have an anxiety attack and you're like, Oh, that was probably the third cup of coffee that I had. So we do understand this concept at a very basic non emotional level. But then when we get into our own kind of like trying to figure out the answer, we can overthink things around. Again, it doesn't feel so simple anymore. It's like, wait, am I faking this? Am I not? There's no faking. You're scared. If you're scared, you're scared. Your cortisol levels raise, all of that. we, one, it's like a lot of paying attention to what your symptoms are, but without making meaning of it, that I think is the biggest thing I teach clients. And I, I don't know that I think it takes a while to really grasp they get it right away, but then they'll fall back in the trap of trying to make meaning too quickly. So even if, so if you're the type, you know, often one of the biggest things that health providers tell you to do is track your symptoms. And sometimes, sometimes that's helpful. But most of the time, at least in my, in the conditions that I see the most in my practice, things that are mysterious, like again, like lime pots, Epstein bar, chronic, whatever it is, those things tracking, I have never found to be helpful with any client. I've never, I've never once had a client say, I tracked this for two weeks and I found this exact correlation between every time this happened and that symptom arose. Never. Have you?
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Well, the exception I would say is with food allergies, but you're right, because I think sometimes we can and then, but sometimes it's also not helpful because then people will eliminate 15 foods from their diet that was, that were just fine. And I think my take on the way you're describing it, which is such a good point, is that any tracking like that or trying to make meaning that we do in our heads is we get stuck in this place of trying to justify. We want validation. We want to prove to the doctor it's real because it happened. And like you said, we need to help people understand. It's real regardless of what's causing it. We're not saying it's not real. And I think that, you know, is what gets the walls to come down without what you're saying, all of this analysis and an interpretation
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Exactly. Yeah. And not, and also depending on your personality type, the tracking itself can be anxiety provoking. And then that can lead you to not do it, even though you've committed to doing it. But now you can't figure out why you just can't stick with it. It's likely because writing the data causes some kind of emotional reaction that you're, you don't want to feel. And so you avoid it completely. Or if you're a bit more type A, you might over track every little thing. And now you're in this kind of anxiety, neurotic filled state again, creates some of these symptoms that we're talking about. So it's a hard question. I think to answer, how do we fix this? How do we become more aware? Because it's not a tip or a trick. It's a practice. practicing mindfulness. Mindfulness is not a way to get rid of your anxiety. It's a way to pay attention to your anxiety., Mindfulness got a, marketing. facelift and it's touted as this thing to cure so many things. And it's like, that's like one part of all of this. That's just one tool to help you become more aware of what you need to change. The mindfulness helps you figure out what you need to change. But going back to making meaning too fast, I always explain to clients too, we have to collect data and we have to collect enough data points before we make the, conclusion. That's what scientists do. They don't, a good scientist is not going to say I did this one study and it showed me this. No, we need studies with multiple, multiple, multiple data points before we can definitively say anything. So that's the same thing with our body. I think so. We mindfully collect the data, whether that's in your mind or on paper. the same time, you have to be using relaxation skills to help relax your nervous system. If if the collection of it makes you jump to meaning making and then it causes anxiety. Or even the opposite if you lean more toward avoidance. might actually be too loose in your joints and in your muscles and in your, in your breath and everything, our mind and our body are connected. if you've ever been called uptight, like as a personality, you're probably very have tight muscles. you've ever been told you kind of, you don't care enough, or you're too relaxed, you probably have very loose joints, muscles. Then that's just a clinical observation. So it's not about right or wrong. It's about what's working for you or what's not working for you. And only you can determine that. And you can only determine that after enough time and space has been given with the data. It just can't be a quick, like this thing equals that thing. It's not going to produce quality, conclusions.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Right. And I think that the goal of that is to meet an emotional need. It comes from anxiety. I need an answer right now versus I can sit with this. And like you mentioned before, uncertainty is so difficult for so many people to stay in.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah. Yeah. Um, you were talking earlier, you mentioned, um, you know, with food allergies. Yeah. It's a little more, uh, it is a little bit more immediate,
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes it is. When it is, it's really important that it's immediate, but it's often not. So that's even more confusing.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:yeah, yeah, that's a good, that, that makes sense then. Right. Because it, it's not clear cut and that's kind of, that's That's why these podcasts exist. That's why we're, we talk about these things because there's nuance and there's no clear answer. We're all living with, so much doubt, I think, and uncertainty right now, too, just in our environment. Like, Finances and prices of everything rocketing, the election coming up, there's so much uncertainty. And I think it's important to know when we're talking about symptoms in our body, everything is connected. So, you have an anxiety symptom, whether it's. Because you're anxious about what work looks like tomorrow, or the food you just ate, or the you just took, and if it's going to do X, Y, and Z, it's also connected to our environment. And how much, how uncertain and how scared we feel inside is going to also be affected by how uncertain our environment is. Some of that we can control and some of it we can't. So that that's where it comes back into the therapy realm. What do therapists do about this? We figure out what you can control. We help you figure out what you can control versus what you can't. that's a part of a part of what we do.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, definitely. And I think that's where, to tie it back to what you said about mindfulness, there's There's this misconception. We know there's all this research and evidence that it's effective, but the misunderstanding I think people have is that it makes you magically feel better. Like I meditated, I don't feel calm now. And really that's to me, my, my understanding of the use of mindfulness practices and meditation is to get to a place of acceptance of uncertainty or acceptance of the, whatever I'm experiencing in my body right now. And then sometimes that reduces the Like you're saying, the bracing or the resistance to it can reduce some of the physical symptoms or some of the cognitive, fighting back, but it doesn't magically make you feel better. And so then people like, even that doesn't work and they get more frustrated.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The, it doesn't work part is really hard because how are you defining what worked and what didn't? No one can tell you when you've given enough time to something and it's time to move on and try something else and stop beating a dead horse with what you're trying to do versus you haven't actually given it a long enough of a, a try and not from a shame based way, but just it was hard and you don't have the right teaching around it. You haven't enough handholding during it. Adults require handholding just like kids, but we often forget that.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:You make another good point that I want to stick with, if it's okay, how do we define. It's working. How do we define I'm getting better or, or therapy is effective or whatever it is, because that doesn't usually mean everything's great now and everyone feels wonderful. So will you talk about that and how you work with that idea of what better means?
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, I think it's really, that's a really difficult thing to answer. Some therapists will say, you know, we have assessments, whether it's like the, the very simple GAD, where we, we measure your anxiety on like a 10 question scale, and they'll assess, you know, the, the, Session 1 session, 10 session, 20 and and we want to see that you're, you're getting better. According to the scale. I, I don't use assessments like that and now that I have toddlers, it's easier to see it like this, but we want that answer so desperately, am I doing better? is this working? I kind of liken it to a toddler tantrum and I go through this myself. It's a toddler tantrum where we want what we want and we want it right now. we need an adult in the room who can hold our hand and say, I know you want that. I want that for you and I can't give it to you. So what, what do you need now that we can't get that? I can't give you a clear answer, but I can sit with you in this. And usually by the end of that, of the, as that emotion or that, that phase has passed. the client can come to some kind of clarity around, like, I still don't have an answer if I'm doing better or not, but I do feel better in this way, or this little thing has changed. And I don't think I could have done that without the help of my therapist. That's how I also determine whether therapy is working for me as a client well.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:I love the metaphor and I agree with you. You're right. Different clients need different things. Sometimes they're found to be very clinical and detached And some people they're very measurable and tangible. And, it depends on each person. they have their place, but, I love your metaphor and it's, it's getting my wheels turning. When you're talking about toddlers and tantrums, and we all have that reaction within us, sometimes you're getting my mind going about. Attachment. We were talking before about attachment in terms of clinging to answers, but I don't want to lose my listeners. My therapist brain is going to attachment as in are we securely attached? Most people are generally familiar with am I anxiously attached and how that, you know, ties into the nervous system. The toddler and the tantrum is in the fight or flight mode. And I know you do a lot of work utilizing that attachment Perspective in terms of fight or flight, which I talked to my audience a lot about, can you tell us what we need to know about how to utilize that?
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah. Yeah. I think the like very simplified version of how I describe attachment styles is like, typically, if you are the type of person that fearfully moves toward a problem, you are likely more anxiously attached. And if you fearfully move away from problems, you're more avoidantly attached. attached is when you know how to Ebb and flow move toward in a way as appropriate, and there's not a lot of anxiety field filled with it. It's more just a feeling of sureness of calmness. hard struggles. And so fight or flight, fight is moving toward that, toward a problem. Flight is moving away. And we all do this too. Even if you're anxiously attached, you might have some avoidant tendencies. If you're avoidantly attached, you might have some, anxious. And then of course there's also disorganized, which is, I think a whole different level of this. the way that we react to our bodies, whether it's a chronic illness, symptom, food, allergy, whatever it is is line with our attachment styles. if you tend to be more, tight and bracing more of that fighting stance, you move toward, you're more anxiously attached. You're going to want to know all the information. You're going to get pissed off when no one cares to ask about X, Y, and Z, and how dare they. Not think about my kid in this situation. Whereas a more avoidant a style be, we're just, we're not going to go there. And I actually don't want anyone to ask. So we're just not going to go do that., That's how I think it can look. and then towards your body too. Well, am I going to allow myself to feel this thing, this symptom, and you might feel it a lot, a lot, like you can't get it out of your brain, more anxiously or you might be almost. You don't feel it at all until it's brought to your attention. And that is a little bit more avoidantly attached to your symptoms.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:That's so helpful. I think that you did such a good job of describing what it would look like because for people who you don't do what we do and have the conversations we do every day. Even if they're familiar with attachment, they think that's like, Oh, that's how I feel about my parents. This is how I behave in relationships. And you phrased it so well. It's how do I respond to any conflict or any problem in my life? That's why this is so, foundational for us in understanding our styles, because it's how we approach life. It's not just our relationships to mom and dad. We're not, you know, limited to, to that. responding to them in that way. It plays out everywhere. So how do people gain a better understanding? What's my, what's my pattern? And as you said, everyone can change. It doesn't mean you do this a hundred percent of the time, but getting a better idea and then obviously developing a healthier, a more balanced approach or a more helpful approach.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, we need role models. This is one of those things where what's in my control and what's not, I'm lucky enough that my husband pretty securely. And so he was a very good model for me and I've known him for now, you know, 15 years Daily exposure to a secure nervous system. That to me is luck that was out of my control. The part that was in my control was to stay in the relationship and not leave it, deciding to observe and, and when shame popped up around my own anxious attachment style, I feel fine disclosing that because we all are, we all have our styles. They're not right or wrong. Right. But when the fear and the anxiety popped up, it was my decision. Okay. Decision, but also through I had tools. I had a practice around mindfulness. I had all these tools at my disposal to then make the choice to again, stay in this relationship, to observe and not fight. I mean, trust me. I fight, I fight sometimes, but it's not, but, uh, it is. It is about, again, so there's just, there's parts you can control and parts you can't. If you don't happen to have a secure partner or somebody who's around you a lot, we can look to books, characters in books, TV shows, and try to do some inter parenting work imagining that TV character as our parent. What would that be like to be on the receiving end of that? That kind of work can be hard because it often does bring up so much grief if you didn't have that. But to start to understand how to securely attached to your body is Understanding first to where, where you land. Are you more anxious? Are you more avoidant? Are you very disorganized? Meaning there's a lot of both and it goes back and forth. Like anxious, anxious, anxious, avoid it, avoid it, avoid it. And you actually like never know where what's going to come next. we want to get really in touch with that first. good acronym you can remember is This is from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, but it's ACE, A C E. Acknowledge. Acknowledge what is there without changing it. So Acknowledge or Acceptance can stand for A. And then C is coming back into your body. And it's still kind of in Acknowledging because you're noticing what's there rather than trying to change it. But you can also use your breath to get grounded, to recognize you're in the present moment, realize what is rather than what was or what will be. a is acknowledged. C is coming back into my body and then E is engaging with the world or my values. So in this example of how do I securely attach to my body soon as something pops up, I acknowledge what's happening. I acknowledge the sensation. I acknowledge the thoughts I'm having in this in order to acknowledge and do that part of the acronym, you're pausing and pausing is a really powerful thing. Mindfulness tool as well. So this is very connected. You have to pause in order to label the, the two end up being, you're using two skills in one, really. So you're pausing to acknowledge what's happening, thoughts, feelings, sensations, what's actually happening. Maybe there's. in the doctor's office. Maybe you're, you just ate a food that is scary. You don't know now, like if something's gonna happen once we acknowledge that, then we can come back into our body. Notice again, notice what's there. take a deep breath. notice your feet on the ground. sometimes just pushing your hands into each other or squeezing your arms or your legs, anything that helps you get back into your body. And then engaging with your values is if you're like talking about food allergies and you have to like go to go somewhere, take your epinephrine or go to the hospital, that's one thing. if nothing dangerous is happening, but there's a lot of fear happening. So we use the A and the C to help us get to engaging back with the environment that we're in, in a grounded way so that we can live the life we want to live. So
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:so helpful because, yes, for those with food allergies, that's what it comes down to. I don't even want to go to this birthday party because they didn't ask me about if the cake is safe and my kid's going to be upset because, and then the way you're describing it, we can have that time to pause and to acknowledge what we're feeling, have that time to come back and then ground into what's my value about this? What do I want to show my child? Or if it's an adult with food allergies, how do I want my life? to be and look. And do I want to choose out of that, that fear? Or, you know, do I want to engage with both the world, the relationships I have, the people I trust, and with my values and the life I want to create?
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:yeah, exactly.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:You mentioned, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which is such a great tool. Can you tell everybody a little bit more about that beyond the tool you just described?
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, I don't use it from a purely behavioral lens, but it is a behavioral therapy. but the behavior that we're trying, trying to help you engage in is the one that's most important and meaningful to you. It's not about shaming you into behaving a certain way. It's
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Right,
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:out what's important to you using tools such as the one I just mentioned to help you overcome obstacles and obstacles can be both physical or mental, fear, anxiety. If you don't want to feel those things, you will often not engage in the thing inevitably will provoke that, but it's also probably a really meaningful thing in your life. If you have anxiety around the birthday party, but now your kid all his classmates always go to all the birthday parties and he can't, we want to be able to engage in that if being social is a value of yours, which I think for like 99 percent of us, it is, and to make matters more complicated when it's you and now a kid, you have to take into consideration your kid's values too, which they can't verbalize yet.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:right. And and your kids nervous system back to co regulation. And whereas my body, you know, acknowledge what's going on in my body right now, but then how closely tied that is to your child's body. And then how they're experiencing a situation or a possibility or scenario. It gets complicated. I always trace everything back to our nervous systems. And it's, it's so powerful when you were talking about models of like, attachment. I always smile and think of bluey and that's why the show bluey is such a huge hit because all of us parents needed that model of what does a secure parent look like and we can embody it. We can imagine receiving it and it demonstrates the way you feel when you watch that. And my kids almost kind of missed it. But like we all still like it even though they're older because it feels so good. It changes what's going on in your nervous system. It's amazing.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:yeah, that's a really good example. Yes.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:You mentioned grief, so obviously that's a big part of several, perspectives in the ways that we've been talking about this grief touches on all of those angles.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah. This is all, I mean, we could probably do a whole podcast episode on grief.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:We could do a whole podcast on each one of the things we've talked about so far.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yes. Yes. Basically grief is, is loss. And so if you're living a life that you didn't expect to live, whether it's because of a food allergy or chronic pain, chronic illness took something from you, like your ability to engage with the world easily, there's grief and there's loss in that
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:thing that's complicated. And I think is. It doesn't always have to be that way. And that's really what we're talking about. Like, we can engage in the world almost Almost no matter what, my dad is blind, but he paints, he, there's someone who helps him with the colors and then he uses his hands to paint on the canvas. And so are usually ways around some of these things, the point I'm making is like grief is anything that you no longer have that you still want because if you lose something and you didn't care about it, there's no grief. It's just like, oh, thank you. I didn't want that in my life. It's gone. So if you still want it and it's not there, there's grief and that is reasonable expected. And when we are grieving, what we need is support. We need someone who can look at us and say, that is really hard. And I'm, I'm here with you through it. Not here's how you can think differently and be better. You know, I did mention the of my dad painting, but. That took 15 years after he lost his eyesight before that started happening. That was not like a, don't be, don't be scared. Don't be sad. You're blind now. You can still paint. Like that would just be terrible. You know, we don't, that's not what we're talking about here. You have to go through sadness, anger, all of the things before you can get to a place where you're like, I want to re engage now from a place of I can do rather than what I've lost. It's a little bit more complicated when you have kids because like that grieving process, on how long it is and how severe it is, can take away from your kid's life. Um, and so when that's happening, want all the support we can get. We want somebody else who's trusted, who can take them to the birthday party and understands their allergies while I'm grieving the loss of whatever it is I'm grieving.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:That's such a good point. You need to know what it is you're grieving. Are you grieving that I can't go to the birthday party? Are you grieving, now my child's life might not ever look like this? You have to know what it is before you can move through it and heal in the way you're describing, right?
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Exactly. So sometimes you need that time. And the way that we reflect on things is different, again, based on our personality types, some people need to be alone in a room journaling. Some people need to be out with other people, verbally processing. I think that's one of the hardest things for a lot of my clients, the, the desire to talk about their chronic pain and chronic illness, but no one wants to hear it. They just hear it as you're complaining all the time. some of us are verbal processors. And in order to actually move through this, we need to talk about it a lot. And so it's, it can be hard to find someone who's willing to sit in that with us and, and not eventually be like, I'm tired of hearing you complain. It's like, I'm not, I'm not, yes, it's a complaint. And also this is how I get through to the other side. So it's hard, it's hard, like knowing what you, what you need and what you want. And then also finding it
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, you not only have to know what you're grieving But then how does my body and my mind want to work through this and what do I need in order? To do that. What's the context? What do you say to people? Struggling with what you're you know Describing because I think in the food allergy world a lot of us just we just talk to other moms on the phone Social media groups who understand what we're going through. And then I think there's less of a like, oh, you're getting sick of me talking about this, but we need that in real life, I think, too. And it's hard to find.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, exactly. I mean, my clients too, same thing. There's a lot of Facebook groups for like all the different chronic illnesses. There's some that are more general chronic illness groups, and those are helpful places. To at least be validated in what you're experiencing. The other thing too, is like when it comes to complaining, quote, complaining, it's like, sometimes you actually, it does like hurt you to, to keep going down that path. It kind of feels spirally. And so it just depends on the situation, but I do work with clients around, do we help you Balance what you're talking about, but for you, not because you're scared of not being liked or not being wanted. That's never a good motivator. It might motivate you, but then you can't connect genuinely with people because you're resenting them while you're suppressing what think you need to do to get liked. So it's it's really it's you need so much trial and error. We want to like dip our toes into the conversation and see how, how far can I go with this while it's still safe. And when I get that cue from someone else that it's too much, one, I have to not take that personally. Yes. It's all that's on my mind because it's in my life, but what about their life? Am I asking about their life? Do you, what, what do I know about them? When we're talking about forming relationships, like what do they want to talk about? And maybe I've, I've gone too far in this conversation, just focused on me, or maybe I haven't, I haven't talked about me enough. And now they feel uncomfortable continuing to talk about themselves because I'm not sharing vulnerably either. So go both ways.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:And that's so important because I think, yeah, when we hold back, we don't realize we're just thinking, I don't want to burden or annoy someone, but we don't realize that we might be sending the message of, I, you know, I'm uncomfortable accepting help from you and therefore don't reach out to me for help either. It kind of shuts down the communication.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:I think it goes right back to how, we engage with everything based on our attachment styles, how you're figuring out how to have these conversations with people is also going to like mirror what your attachment style is. And we have to be willing to. Not have so much like, okay, to go into it and I'm going to say this thing. And I'm, if I say it this right way, they will understand. They might not. And then you're left feeling broken. Like either I'm so terrible. No one understands me or the world is horrible because they're not willing to listen. And it just, it takes so many conversations to build relationship. have to be willing to engage in that relationship over and over and over again. Even if the result of one conversation is not what we want it to be.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Right. Right. And I think then back to what you described about checking in with the nervous system. We don't want to have one conversation where we feel like, Unheard and then have our nervous system kick in. We're in fight or flight. And then we're responding from that place versus what's like you said, what's my value? I want to develop a deeper relationship with this person in person and have mutual understanding that doesn't come from a place of fight or flight reaction to an individual conversation.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Exactly.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:I think that that touches to on, you know, your perspective for people with all kinds of chronic illness and chronic medical stuff. I think it's good to mention and good to acknowledge. We feel alone in our little bubble. Probably many people with specific things do as well, but there's so much overlap that we can share with people managing other things in terms of. relating and understanding or providing support that's similar that's needed.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, exactly. one of the, one of the things I've, I've tried to start groups so many times. If you're on my email list, you will know this because I will, I will put out emails to start a group and then I'll give updates and then it's like, Oh, sorry. Group's not happening. Cause there wasn't enough people to actually say yes and commit to it. Um, and that, and the feedback I often hear when people say no is they're not going to understand. Like the other people in the group are not going to understand and especially I don't do specific diagnoses in my groups, it's, it's a, um, whatever chronic illness you have, um, because there's so much overlap in it. I don't see a lot of difference and, um, thinks that their case is, is, is, um, Is too different for anyone else to understand. And I think that comes from, again, how we were raised. Uh, if you, if you were never understood by your parents or your, your, your school is a big part of this. If you had teachers who constantly kind of the culture in the school was very like invalidating, or it just wasn't what you needed, then you grow up to learn that no one, no one could possibly understand you. So yeah, it's very layered.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Another layer of that that I want to touch on is, in our world, probably in a lot of the people that you work with too, often if we're talking about a child and the child's condition or illness or medical situation, many of the people I work with are feeling that they're carrying everything alone in addition to, reaching out and building these relationships and social networks and trust. can you talk about, that concept of like, you have to put your own oxygen mask on first, but that is useless advice when someone doesn't know where to start. And when the nervous system is activated by anything we try to do that we feel like compromises our child's safety or security, or, you know, takes time away from them. what does that actually look like in terms of taking care of yourself? As a, as a caregiver of someone. It's
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah, that's a good question and the reason I pause is because it is so it's individualized and it is based on what your nervous system likes and doesn't like. But if you don't know, then that that in and of itself is a journey and a process. I think it brings us back to the concept of doubt and uncertainty. When you're trying to figure out what it is, I like what it is. I don't like what it is. I need emotionally. What is my oxygen mask? It's a lot of being willing to try different things for me. Like, seriously, it's like, salt baths four times a week. I have chronic pain. Notice a difference when I go more than like two or three days without a bath. 15 years ago, it was like sit in a bath for like 20 minutes. My mind couldn't. The idea of being alone with my thoughts for 20 minutes was terrifying. through all this work was like, I realized that was the problem. I don't, it's not that I don't have the time for a 20 minute bath. It's that I am terrified to be alone with my thoughts for 20 minutes. That's what mindfulness does for you. It brings light to this. Once you realize that, now you can say, okay. But I know that Epsom salt seems to be really good for muscles, aches and soreness and whatnot, and I want to try it, and I want to do this thing. So I have to be willing to sit with myself for 20 minutes, even though I'm going to be scared. So if you keep trying new things, but you expect it not to be hard, setting yourself up for failure.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:so important to emphasize it doesn't magically work the first time. Anything new that you try to institute your body is going to, it's going to feel different and uncomfortable. Not, Oh, that was exactly what I needed. I'm better now.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:yes. Yeah. Rene Brown calls it the FFT the fricking time as it's. So it's so every first time comes with obstacles, fears, anxieties, hardships, uh, and so, yeah, can't really judge almost anything around the first time. Now you can start to judge something based on patterns of behavior.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:like everything else you're talking about, it's a process, not a one time deal. It's a, it's a multiple step process of like, okay, and now I'm going to try this one, or maybe it's a restaurant, a new restaurant you're afraid of. And each time you do that, tuning in with your body's responses versus. FFT.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:yeah, exactly.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:So what is your, if you haven't already shared it, what's your go to, what's your like golden nugget that you love to give your clients? Anyone managing something chronic like this and how, how difficult it can be. What's a surefire, everybody needs to know this.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:I do think it's, what we've really been talking about around mindfulness, not being a cure, but a tool to help you become more aware. and then the ACE acronym is something I share with many, many clients. just remembering that it's a practice and not, a thing that's going to automatically give you insight either the insight comes through trial and error through repetition. Meanwhile, also knowing what your foundation is that you can keep coming back to over and over and over again. Again, whether that's like for me, baths are a part of that. Knowing that, I worked myself into eating three meals a day. That was really hard for me in the past. I know I get more anxious. Sometimes I get jittery. Okay. As if I had too much coffee, but it's because I've gone too long without eating. I know that only through so many years of like mindful awareness around what's happening without jumping to the meaning making. That's I think the, the takeaway here.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:That's so helpful. Thank you.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah,
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Is there anything that you had thoughts about or wanted to mention that you think would be helpful for, for my crew here on this show?
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:I, talk about chronic illness. If you have other intersecting stuff on my podcast, the chronic illness therapist, I now have a directory up for therapists who. Specializing chronic illness. So that you can find someone in your state who understands what you're going through. On one hand, you don't need someone who knows exactly your illness. But on the other hand, it is helpful to in a lot of ways when it comes to like knowledge and resources it is helpful to have somebody who has lived experience with the specific condition that you're dealing with, whether that's food allergy or PCOS or Lyme disease or whatever it is. and if you can't find someone in your state with your exact cause, It is also just helpful to have someone who understands the grief and on all of the overarching things that come along with this through a chronic illness perspective,
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:And you have an email sign up. Your groups might be helpful to a lot of people listening because kids with food allergies and adults with food allergies are prone to other, diagnoses more so than the average person. And then within our families, most of us have more things going on than, than the average. So. How do we people sign up for your email list?
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Yeah. If you go to my website, there's email sign up there and I'll, I'll give you a link as well for your show notes. And I do a workshop at least one a month, sometimes two around different, emotional, things that we might like one, one was like on ADHD and chronic pain. one was on how to not feel like a burden, to your friends and family. So those are some past examples and, Yeah, I do those every month that you can sign up for that on my, on my, my website is the chronic illness therapist. com.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Great. And we will put everything in the notes so people can find it. And the last question I like to ask everybody is just what, what's one great thing about managing a chronic illness?
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:I just think it teaches you so much about yourself. If you let it, if you use it as a mirror, you learn more about yourself. And if that's important to you, then, then that's a great thing.
squadcaster-1gff_2_08-22-2024_110840:Good point. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Destiny.
destiny-davis-lpc-crc--she-her-_1_08-22-2024_110840:Thanks so much.
Here are three steps you can take today to take some action on what you've learned in today's conversation. Number one, listen to Destiny's great podcast. It's easy to find the chronic illness therapist podcast. I'll put the links in the show notes and number two, I'll also put a link to her website and they show notes also very easy to find the chronic illness therapist.com. Number three during our conversation, destiny dropped some hints about one of my very favorite people working in this field. Brenae brown. Trust me, if you want to understand your fears, this is the woman to teach you. Bernays website is Bernay brown.com, B R E N E B R O w n.com links in the notes. She has podcasts. She has lots of books. She has resources on her website. I highly recommend for the listeners on this show. If you haven't read anything by her, starting with the book, the Atlas of the heart. That is kind of like an encyclopedia of your emotions discussed in a way that you probably never heard anyone talk about them before. Super useful tools along with everything that destiny has taught us today about managing our emotions and how we cope with stressors in our lives. the content of this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have any questions about your own medical experience or mental health needs, please consult a professional. I'm Dr. Amanda White house. Thanks for joining me. And until we chat again, remember don't feed the fear.
