Don't Feed the Fear: Food Allergy Anxiety & Trauma
Welcome to "Don't Feed the Fear," where licensed psychologist Dr. Amanda Whitehouse offers expert guidance on managing the social and emotional challenges of food allergies and related conditions. Tune in for compassionate advice, practical strategies, and inspiring stories to help you navigate anxiety and trauma with confidence and resilience.
For more info on resources from Dr. Whitehouse, go to www.thefoodallergypsychologist.com
Theme song: The Doghouse by Kyle Dine, www.kyledine.com
Used with permission from the artist
Don't Feed the Fear: Food Allergy Anxiety & Trauma
Grief as a Vital Sign: John Moir's Path from Paramedic to Grief Work
Welcome to Season 4 of Don't Feed the Fear — a new chapter I'm calling “I Don’t Want to Talk About It.” This season is all about the things we avoid — the fears we carry in silence, the emotions we push down, and the stories we tell ourselves (and sometimes don’t) about life with food allergies. The episode also touches on last season's discussion of strengthening our trust in our support systems.
This episode is a powerful and tender conversation with retired paramedic and grief guide, John Moir, host of the Urban Grief Shamans podcast and leader of grief healing circles for those navigating deep loss.
In this episode, we explore:
- The hidden emotional toll of food allergy emergencies
- What grief looks like when there's no "death"
- How first responders experience trauma and their role in ours
- Why naming our grief is a crucial step toward healing
John brings a rare blend of insight and compassionate presence, inviting us to look gently at the parts of our story we usually avoid. This is a conversation for anyone who's ever had to hold it together during a crisis — and is now wondering what to do with the weight they still carry.
Whether you’re a parent, a patient, or a professional, this episode is a reminder that grief and anxiety don’t mean something’s wrong with you — they mean something happened. And you deserve support for that.
Urban Grief Shamans - Alternative Spiritual Healing and Growth
Break Free, Reclaim Power & Find Peace with Soulful Healing
Home - Soulful Sorrows
The Wild Edge of Sorrow a book by Francis Weller and Michael Lerner - Bookshop.org US
Vial of Life
Special thanks to Kyle Dine for permission to use his song The Doghouse for the podcast theme
www.kyledine.com
You can find Dr. Whitehouse at thefoodallergypsychologist.com and on Instagram (@thefoodallergypsychologist) and Facebook (Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, Food Allergy Anxiety Psychologist)
Email: welcome@dramandawhitehouse.com
You're entering into an apprenticeship with grief, and we know nothing about it. We don't talk about it in our society., The bottom drops out. It's like you just, you fall, and you keep falling, and you keep falling. and we associate that feeling is always going to be there. And it's, it's not. It's an ongoing process. There's nothing to be healed. you are not broken if you're grieving deeply. It's part of the human experience.
Speaker:Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we dive into the complex world of food allergy anxiety. I'm your host, Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, food allergy anxiety psychologist and food allergy mom. Whether you're dealing with allergies yourself or supporting someone who is, join us for an empathetic and informative journey toward food allergy calm and confidence..
Welcome to the spring season of the Don't Feed the Fear Podcast. It's spring here in Buffalo, but spring in Buffalo means that it has snowed three times in the last week. Today's episode is beginning the spring season in true Buffalo style by backtracking a little bit into the winter season,. I've asked my friend John Moir to join us. Originally I had a conversation with him in mind for the winter season which focused on our support systems, and so you are getting a taste of my support system. John is a friend of mine through his partner Patricia, who is also a dear friend of mine. She's a fellow psychotherapist and she's also the parent of a child with a severe food allergy. I wanted to have John come on to talk with us about the part of the support system that we don't get to choose when there's an emergency requiring a 9 1 1 call, whoever shows up at our door is who we get. And I'm so thankful that over the years that those people who did come into my home were so kind and caring and reassuring and capable and took such good care of my son and the other family members in my life that have had emergencies too. I thought it would be so helpful for you as listeners to get a peek into the mindset and the perspective of the people who do come into our homes and into our lives in times of emergency to help us. And the way that John always talks about it with so much compassion and respect for his patients has always felt really healing to me in terms of seeing my own. Experiences through his lens. So I wanted to share that with all of you. But of course we can't stop there. John Moir's experiences in his career as a paramedic led him in his retirement to continue exploring the lessons of grief, loss, healing, and personal growth that affected him throughout his own life and through his profession. So he created his podcast to bring grief literacy out into the open and into our discussions. John and Patricia do grief work now together they hold grief circles and workshops. So talking with John made me quickly realize what the next season of the podcast needed to be. As I sat and contemplated if people were ready to hear a conversation about grief. Grief is one of the things that we don't talk about, that we all have experience with and we don't know what to do with or how to handle. We're not taught, we have limited social norms for how to navigate it and a limited perspective of what it is. And I think as individuals with food allergies or parents. Raising children with food allergies, we often have a lot of unacknowledged grief. So welcome to the beginning of a season where we are going to talk about the things that nobody wants to talk about. And if this season is not for you, I take no offense. I'm amazed at how quickly the show has grown, and I am absolutely prepared for my downloads to drop as I publish this episode because I recognize that some people are just not in a place emotionally to have these discussions. Everyone's window of tolerance for talking about emotionally distressing things is different and I have respect for you in deciding where you're at in your life and whether this is content that's right for you. But if you do proceed with listening, know that there may be parts of the episode that would be triggering. We're going to talk about medical emergencies. We're going to talk about death. We're gonna talk about grief and loss. So if that is for you. I'm very excited for you to join me in talking to my good friend John Moir.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:John, thank you so much for being on Don't Feed the Fear. John is the one who got me podcasting and the reason that I'm here because he has his own podcast and shared all of his resources and platforms with me to make it easy for me to get started. So thank you for that and thank you for coming here on the show.
John Moir:Well, thank you for inviting me. As I said to, uh, to you when you first gave me the invitation, I was pretty excited you're one of our favorite, people. And, it's actually the first time I've been on, someone else's podcast other than mine, My podcast is The Urban Grief Shamans, and my thing is talking about grief and, shamanism and how the two come together for healing. And it's not so much different than, in a sense, from what I understand with the kind of work that you're doing. You know, mine might have just a bit more of a spiritual context to it, but it's the, still the, the grief that comes along sometimes when we're so worried. I would think about our children and, the pressures to, be a good mother or a good father, but somehow I think it's the mothers who carry the, the burden of, of, of that.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:that I think is originally not the reason that I asked you to be on. But let's start with that because I think people think of grief and they think of death, and they don't, necessarily recognize the grief in their own lives from, from their everyday experiences. And we in the allergy community have so much grief and loss about, you know, the lives we imagine for our children and the safety. And I would love it if you would talk about that first, as you're mentioning this huge topic that nobody likes to talk about and you have a whole podcast about it. So let's dive in.
John Moir:Well, yeah, I always have to mention Francis Weller, uh, who is a big mentor for myself and, uh, my partner. And, he wrote this lovely book. It's called, The Wild Edge of Sorrow, and in that, uh, he uses this beautiful soulful language. And it's very non clinical. And I think it, uh, for me it really touched my heart and it, uh, gave me the, um, the idea that, when I grow up I want to be like Francis Weller. To be of service in that way. Because I was coming to the end of my, my, career as a paramedic and, uh, retirement was, was coming. And, uh, it was a way to kind of jump back in of being of service to others. And, so one of the very first things that Weller talks about is everything that we love, we lose. Sometimes it's a really big loss of personal relationship. the loss of our, our own health. And as you mentioned, you know, the loss of our children's health or the difficulties that we see our children going through, that we can't provide the kind of lifestyle or the, just the life that we experience as, as, as our own childhood as we went through those things.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:I think it does affect people so differently in such different ways and on all aspects and that's part of the loss, right? Like you said, my childhood was like this. I imagined you doing this or going here.
John Moir:Yeah.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:and so there is, you know, such a variation. It can affect any aspect and all aspects of our lives,
John Moir:Yeah. And I would think that perhaps, Amanda, one, a big one I'm just thinking of now is that just the loss of security, can you leave your child alone for a period of time or, just those kinds of concerns My kids would go out the door and I would never. that wouldn't be a thought at all. You know, what's, what's going to happen in the lunchroom or in the classroom or some kid going to try and play a joke and hand something stupid to your child, because they know that that might be funny in some way, but it of course isn't.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Right, right. Yeah, that sense of safety that's in the sense of control and protection, which obviously none of us have, but some of us have the benefit of the illusion of control until something like this takes it away from us.
John Moir:Yeah, you're so right.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:One thing I thought I would mention the way that I know John is through my dear friend, Patricia, who is a psychotherapist friend, which is how I initially know her. And she does this grief work with you now. Um, and so you and she and I, you know, in, in what I'm learning from you about grief and what's becoming so pronounced to me, even though I knew it from my training, is that grief is It's how we tend to want to avoid, we tend to want to not discuss and not see it and how much healing there is, in acknowledging it and exploring it and honoring it and what I've learned from the two of you about such a beautiful way of doing that is such a mindset shift. Because as a therapist, I want to make people feel better. I want to say, here are some skills. You haven't lost your child's health, right? This is just an aspect of their medical needs, but not lost. But really, there's so much power and healing available in embracing the grief. And I would love it if you could share, much more eloquently than I can, about that and why it's valuable.
John Moir:what I've come to learn about, about grief is that it's probably the, the, the quintessential emotion that we as people, as humans, um, one, we have to go through it. it's in our DNA to grieve. It's like that, that grinding stone, you know, you have that, that beautiful rock and then it gets turned into a diamond and it sparkles And that's what, that's what grief does to us. when we hit, we get hit with that first change, uh, that, that loss. And I'm thinking, you know, like the really big ones whatever it may be, it may be a loss of a, a pet or, certainly a partner. your house, your job we would describe it as an apprenticeship. You're entering into an apprenticeship with grief, and we know nothing about it. We don't talk about it in our society., The bottom drops out. It's like you just, you fall, and you keep falling, and you keep falling. And, those early parts of the grief, which is just, you know, disbelief and anger and all this kind of stuff that we try to argue with. it's the beginning. And, and we associate that feeling is always going to be there. And it's, it's not. Everybody's going to grieve differently. So I don't want to put our time on it. There's, there's some people, it's very quick. Others, it's just, it's an ongoing process. It's kind of an oxymoron, because I always say, Oh, you know, come and enjoy my grief healing workshop. But there's nothing to be healed. You know, you are not broken if you're grieving deeply. It's part of the human experience. And you'll go through it more than once. when you had a few big griefs of when you, you know, could have lost your life or, uh, few illnesses or accidents, um, or, uh, even having somebody close to you that recuperated, The experience is is that, um, you realize. What you do have is much more important. I'm not talking about material things. The fact that you're still here on this, this planet. You've gotten through this. And what grief does for us, that honing process, it allows us to embrace compassion much more. We become greater compassionate beings. We love more deeply. we start to have a certain grace and, um, And it just allows us to, see everybody differently. You know, we make more room in our hearts for, for those who have less. We make more room in our hearts for the bullies. And it comes down to, there's no one that's better than the others. Everybody is beautiful, it doesn't matter how roughed up it is there's still great beauty to be seen there. And certainly within our children who may not be so well or not be seen as being perfect in the eyes of relatives or other people. They're all stunning, beautiful, beings. But it's that, that journey through grief. That, makes a difference. And what I found for myself is that, you get through the big part. You get through that dark, the darkness, that Weller talks about. And, and that's what people are always afraid of, that I'm never going to come out of it. Or they think that, Well, if I don't hang on to that, then I don't have any connection to the one that I loved. And it's such a falsehood I like to say it becomes this wonderful melancholy. Every once in a while it comes up, this longing, and then, and then it just, Flitters away, until the next time it kind of comes up. What it did for me, I can, look at my partner. When we're shopping and I can see her just doing something simple is just picking up, I had a lettuce or something, but I, there'd be this longing. That's created, she's not ill. It's part of, the process of loving, but there's that longing, knowing. that our relationship is not going to be forever. it could go, in a heartbeat, in five minutes from now, other times it might be years, but, uh, eventually we will lose all that we love. But I'm thankful for that longing.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Well, I'm thankful for that description, because we carry so much of it. even though we've talked about this before and Patricia and I have talked about it, I never. that experience, my, my allergy mom experience in terms of, I knew there was grief, but the way that that hones me, right? Like you said, that, that honing process and every time it resurfaces when something scary happens or, or I have that, that rejuvenation of the grief feeling, it also is followed by exactly what you said. This, this reconnection to my child, this, this, this. Emphasis on being able to see their wholeness, being able to see his perfection in just the way that he exists and cherishing that so much that I might have the day before when I was complacent before something, you know, scary happened and stirred up the grief inside of me. So thank you for that personally, because that's a new way for me to be able to articulate it that I didn't have before this.
John Moir:Yeah. you must see the courage. that these children possess. Uh, I can't imagine that, you're going out the door with not much armor on.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:I say that all the time. Allergy kids are the bravest people that I know. And I don't think I give myself enough credit, even though I can see it in the other parents, that so are we. Because there's our heart walking around in the world, outside of our bodies. So, you're right. We tend to not give ourselves enough credit and one version of that, I think, is people who might be listening to this and saying, well, sure, there's grief when there's, when there's a death, right, or, or anticipating the loss of a person. But I think some of us would minimize and say, you know, it can't be grief over something this, this small. That's not a death. But it, but it can, I know that it can. And I, I wonder what you would say to those people who would kind of get into that comparative space of like, well, nobody died. So it's not grief that I'm experiencing.
John Moir:Well, look around you, when you're in a shopping mall and you just see people shopping. the ones who have to keep buying things, it's like a self, uh, self soothing by having to buy and get out and get a new dress or a new car or whatever. When we have all these little griefs, what it's really doing to us, we just push it down and push it away. But it's actually, um, when we do that, uh, we, we kind of push a part of ourselves away. So with, that grief and not acknowledging it, it, we leave parts of ourselves, you know, we don't want to acknowledge that, that grief. We don't want to acknowledge that experience. Uh, I want to forget about this or forget about that. And, and so a little bit goes. But it anesthetizes us to the pain. that we are experiencing or not acknowledging. Right? And then we have this amnesia that what we settle for now is so much less. Grief makes us small. It's just what happens. We just, we tuck her back, we tuck back in and become small. And, uh, you know, we can't be happy. yeah, it anesthetizes us and, uh, makes us just forget. And so we, we have all these other behaviors now that come in place and, uh, we don't live the big life. You know, we go around. just fighting off, you know, any kind of acknowledgement that that part of us even exists. so, yeah, just look around. and what happens is, is that, uh, we have all these mini griefs, as these people would say, what's the big deal? We're really sad. And then next thing you know, we're, we're picked up and away we go again. And we think, oh, we've beaten it. or how many, how many. Puppies that people had over the years and some will get a dog almost right away when they lose one, people want to replace, They're goldfish as quick as they can, as opposed to allowing the child to go through that grief. we, we have to learn it from someone. And if we can't model it from our parents, then who is it that we're going to model after? I grew up in a time when, you know, men, uh, just weren't allowed to cry, right? You just can't do that. And, uh, One of the things that grief has given me, I cry all the time now. And, uh, if I see any kind of a film or TV thing that has, you know, where there's a, breakup with a relationship between a parent and a child, that gets me. That gets me. You get those big lumps. But I'm not afraid of those lumps anymore. I'm not afraid to cry in public. And our kids can see that, and I've certainly been teaching my kids more how to do that.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Will you talk about how you do that? What do we, as parents actually do that you can describe to people and action they can take to change that and to teach that to our kids.
John Moir:They just have to model it. When something bad happens, we think that we're protecting our children by not talking about it, or talking about their feelings. they all have their own, but they want to know what, what are your feelings truly. And if we can't be honest with our kids about, I'm really upset and see me cry. You know, that, men don't cry. You know, it's, that's, that's not right. You know, it's teaching, uh, that one, their daughter perhaps that this is what she's going to have to enforce on her kids. You know, and then for the son, you just learn from the father that you don't do that. You know, or, or I'm going to be seen as not being a man, you know, as we all try to model after our mothers and fathers.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Right. And then as you said. Then these parts of ourselves get cut off and suppressed and disconnected from the part, the piece of us that's around and functioning in the world. Me as a psychotherapist. we call it IFS internal family systems. And we also talk about parts and how we need to. Reintegrate. We have to have all of the parts of us be heard and acknowledged and have their needs met. And if we're not listening to what they are, as you said, these parts of us get, get disconnected and we become smaller and smaller. And what's left is only the parts who are trying to keep the other parts from crying in front of people or from feeling sad. And we, we become those protective and defensive actions instead of our full. complete selves.
John Moir:You're kind of touching on what I would call like the, those parts, uh, of ourselves that are, Shame. Shame is, would be the number two kind of main vector the way grief comes to us. I think that it's almost impossible to get out of childhood not being stained in some way by a sense of, of shame. And it might be something that your parents said or you thought you heard it and misinterpreted it in a, in a, um, I in your own way, and that you felt guilty. You felt like, like, I'm not a good boy. If I do something like this, then they're not going to love me anymore. And, and then there goes the trust, and I must be a terrible. we carry this, uh, this shame and so we bury it. But we bury it so deeply that we don't want to talk about it. We don't want people to know that part about ourselves. And so as, as the shame goes, it takes our, our life essence with it. and even in EMS, uh, you would see just the stuff that we're not supposed to see. You're leaving a piece of yourself somewhere in an outpost. it steals our essence, our life essence. And then we want to start controlling things. We want to start controlling every aspect of what we do as people and how we love. And certainly we become less vulnerable because we don't trust, I think. And we don't even like ourselves. Right? all those parts of ourselves are scattered everywhere except where they're supposed to be, which is, you know, in our hearts. And so when we look in the mirror, then, I can't stand that person, It's all signs of, of, grieving.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Absolutely. And I would love to use this talk about shame to segue into the other piece of things, which you just mentioned your role, um, as a paramedic and an EMS for your, your career, you know, throughout the bulk of your life. That's the reason that I initially thought to have you on the show. Um, Because, and when we were talking about it, I was explaining to you, we carry so much shame as allergy parents. And for me, there's no time that it is bigger than when there has been an emergency, or a mishap, or an accident, or a mistake that has led to needing emergency medical intervention. And so, there is, this range of different thoughts and experiences that other allergy parents I know have had when we have had to call. From things like, you know, my house is a mess, my pajamas have holes in them, and of course we're not going to hesitate to get care for our kids, but at the same time, why are we feeling shame about things like that in a moment like that, these tiny little shameful things, and then of course the big things. underlying shame of, I messed up and now there's an emergency and I need to call these people to come and help my child, which obviously parents listening, I don't think you made a mistake. things happen. I'm not blaming you, but I'm just talking from my personal experience, how difficult it is. And I've heard you talk so beautifully, John, about your experience in that role and what it's like for you coming into people's homes to help them during those difficult times. Most awful times of their lives. I thought it would be so healing for people to have that perspective from you and to know what you are bringing into their homes during those worst moments.
John Moir:When I first started as a paramedic, I started in, uh, 78 and, You learn from the people who were before you, right? Like there's what we call the old timers, the guys who've been on the job way longer than when we're just starting out. We're real like eager and just want to get going and save the world. it took me a while to, really get a handle on what was going on EMS it was probably the, the, the best thing I've done in my life because it, uh, you go home at the end of the day and, I'm going home, but there's a few people today that aren't going to ever go home. And, uh, I've been in, A lot of people's homes, and you've seen the affluent, you've seen the have nots, and everything in between. Being a paramedic. What we do is we, our job is to turn chaos into, peace and quiet as opposed to judging. Going into people's homes can bring, for me, a lot of joy, because you just see how different people are. you learn so much about yourself when you go into their own people's homes, that's their private place. And how they, you think they live, or how they, you think they treat each other. You learn so much about how, how different we are as a species. How wonderfully different that we are. it reminds me of, a call that, we did and I can't remember the chief complaint, maybe it was to go get her and take her down for a medical appointment, but she's bedridden. And, um, we get there, and it's one of these subsidized housing places. And, we go inside. We always have to look around. I don't know of any medic who doesn't look around. and try to clear our space. we do come in with an eye open and just looking, and we probably look like we're judging, uh, but it's not. It's just looking around. this was a small apartment. And, you know, I could see the sink just full of, of dirty dishes, the husband was there. But in the middle of this kitchen, and kind of going into the tiny living room, was this hospital bed. And, I'm going to get a little choked here, but, and this wonderful, wonderful lady just laying in bed. She can't really move too much, I'm not sure if it was Parkinson's or whatever it was that she had, but she needed to be taken care of. transported. And, um, so there was all this visual cues going on, stimulating my brain, like, like, you know, wondering what's this, what's that. And then all of a sudden, I, when I looked at her, Amanda, it just stopped. She was the, the epitome of grace. laying in that bed. And, uh, so we, did what we had to do. We just, you know, kind of, Get her prepared for transport and get what we need in, into the tiny space and, got her on the, uh, stretcher and,, packed up and then we, we left. I was, uh, driving the, the vehicle at the time and my partner was in the back with her. And, um, my mind was the quietest. it has ever been. I was driving, but my mind wasn't chattering at all. I couldn't believe the difference. That's why she's so memorable for me. Something about her had touched me and, um, it was amazing. so that's an example of walking into someone's house that's, you're thinking one thing, and, uh, the experience is so completely different. so we don't really care what, uh, how you're dressed. Uh, we try to protect people's dignity, we go into a lot of, older people's homes. And, they'll die in their homes. And, we get called for that. And, we might be the only ones there. And, there's a certain sacredness that, uh, always has touched me coming into a person's home when they're, they're the last ones. And, before any of their loved ones know what has happened to this, this person. And, um, that always touched me. But you go into the bedroom, we're looking around now, we'll walk around the apartment looking for, prescription meds. try to get a handle on why this person might have died, but you see all the pictures, all the, the weddings and the, the weddings of their children and the weddings of their grandchildren, perhaps. old friends, like those old black and whites that are fading on their, on their, the bedside tables, on the walls. So, that's another experience that I thoroughly enjoyed. It doesn't matter, you don't have to have a beautiful house. You don't have to have beautiful clothes. Um, it goes two ways. you think as a parent that we're judging you, whereas, you know, most of the time we're probably learning from you.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:And heightened emotion in a different way, but there's some reciprocation there in terms of the connection of this human experience that is going on, like the way you're describing the way you're touched by these people and their, their, their presence in their lives. For me, at least it's been just so helpful to hear you talk about it such a compassionate way because, we don't hear people talk about what it's like to be in your shoes.
John Moir:Yeah, we've had a lot of parents that have been, brought to tears and, really upset and thinking the worst is, is happening to their, their little loved ones. they're a patient as well. there's two, there's the child and then there's the mother. most, most crews know that and will treat the people like that. And, the first thing that, if we can get the mother calmed down sometimes this is getting a blanket, put them around them. just to bring their, anxiety down is so helpful for the child because now they're not so fearful for the mother or the father. and then to the point where they can start telling us what's going on because we rely on, on the mother for everything. The child could be looking fine to, to us and we'll certainly assess the child. but it's the changes that the mother see, which is the big diagnostic for us, So it's so important to have, parents, mothers, to be grounded and centered so they can help and and we're part of that helping them to help us,
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:in my own experiences, which I've had a handful, and they varied, but that has been so helpful to me, the calming presence of someone coming in and taking the feeling of everything is on my shoulders right now, to, Someone walking in who, who knows more than I do about what needs to be done. the one first EMS call we had in this home that we're in, the man happened to share with me that he lives in my neighborhood and he told me where his house was and I drive by it every day and I'm not kidding you. Every time I drive by that house, I look in there and I just like, feel thankful for him and how he, how he did come into that moment and, and bring that calm and presence to me so that we could focus on my kiddo.
John Moir:yeah and another thing that's helpful for for us if Up here. We did have a vile life program for a while where there's a list of all the meds and the medical history Anything that would be important like their hospital numbers or health card numbers, date of birth, all that stuff, for the whole family and, have that in the fridge or have it somewhere when there is an emergency. And, hopefully you never have to take it out, but, if you do, it's there and we look in the fridge,, there used to be a program, I don't know if it's down in the States, you put an emblem on your door that you could walk in and then it tells us, okay, there's medical records here or something, you know, that are going to be helpful. And it's just so nice to have all that because now we can just focus. We don't have to worry about. my glove became my notepad, all the scribbles and everything on that. And, uh, sometimes I'd have to take that off carefully so I could refer to it later on.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:What was that called in Canada? You said vile?
John Moir:Vile, uh, vile of life. Yeah.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Got it.
John Moir:Basically, it was just a form that was rolled up and put in a, uh, a prescription container. And then it was just attached, uh, inside the fridge.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:that makes so much sense and I don't know of anything like that but I'm going to do a little digging around, What else do you, uh, with allergy calls specifically, is there anything else that want parents to know that you wish we would do or that would be more helpful or not do?
John Moir:yeah, access, gaining access to your home. is a big one. I know that, sometimes it can be just, horrifying if it was like a true anaphylactic, reaction the child's having a real big difficulty. And, so having the door unlocked, having it, perhaps even cracked open. If it's, all the snow that we have, I don't know how many times we couldn't get to the house because of, it's, they just haven't cleared the, the sidewalks in days. Um, or even, uh,
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:biggest anxieties. We live in Buffalo, and you know how our weather is here, too. And when there is a snowstorm, everyone else is like, yeah, we don't have to dig out. Everything's canceled. I need a path to that road before I can sleep because of that exact reason.
John Moir:yeah, yeah, that's always a big help. we always look for, you know, health cards if they have them. If not, we don't worry about it because, the hospital can get that later. And most likely the, the child's going to be known at the, the local hospital anyways.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Tell me if this is a bad idea. I keep all those things, like a copy of, of that, of his insurance card, and all of the information right in the pouch with his epi. And I've handed them, right when they come in the door, I've just handed that to them along with the used And, is that helpful or am I
John Moir:very, very, no, that's, that's, uh, uh, if it was only done like that all the time. And, uh, It's certainly a spent cartridge, as this goes along with the, with the child. It's just a way of documenting the, the meds that were given, so to speak,
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:I've taken it to the hospital, in the ambulance with us and asked, and nobody ever wanted it from me, and I'm like, okay, but I read everywhere to take it with us, so
John Moir:Well, it's important, especially if the child is still having a ton of dyspnea, and, short of breath, was anything given and what time was it given? You know, those are all factors that are just, give us a bit of an idea, is, is the child stabilizing? Mm hmm. Or is a child still getting worse even having a load of epinephrine on board?
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:I think it's helpful, maybe someone who's never called to, to be told, here's what might happen if you call. I think for someone who doesn't know what to expect, it might be less anxiety provoking if you were to describe, what, what might we do to help. At the house and on the way.
John Moir:There's a couple perspectives and, I'll just describe a typical scene. We, we, we show up and, the dilemma for the paramedics, is that, so often that there'd be a loved one who's just frantic. And, and when we look at the, patient, they may not look as if they're under that much distress. So we have a, to try to, get a handle on the situation and decide what we want to do and where we're going to go. We always look at the, at the parents, as the advocate for the child. And that's what I said, I think, earlier that, that, they're our first line of, communication and trying to understand what's going on. And regardless of the condition of the emotional state of the mother, what her story is takes precedent. Like, we have to pay a lot of attention to that. We don't know the child. But there's sometimes, though, it's when we're trying to, to settle things down, uh, that really upsets the, parent because they think that we are not paying enough attention or we're not moving fast enough. And the one thing that we won't do is typically is run., it was like the first, my first teaching, brand new on the, on the tracks I got finally got that first call and, uh, I went over and threw the, the, the station doors up and I thought they're going to come off the track. And the guy was really good. We got in there and he says, uh, You know, we we never run. If you fall and and hurt and trip and blah blah blah, then you're no good. So we all got to, you know, just be safe ourselves to begin with. um, but in the home situation, sometimes that's that just, parents want you to move faster. And and there's so much more that's going through our minds it's not that we're not have that sense of urgency. by all of that, it says there's something going on. But, uh, we just can't, we can't take on the, the same energy that the parents have. We have to bring, bring some calmness and, and we take a look at the child, and we take a look at the parent, who needs the care most right now. And it might be, just be the mother who really needs support and talking, you know, quietly with, and why we need you to be able to tell us what's going on here. Can you have that moment of, of, of quiet and just focus and then tell us your story,, so the other thing that, you know, is always good is, is explaining to them, what we're going to do, what things that we need to do. Make sure you bring your purse, any ID, all that kind of stuff. And who's going to look after the other children in the house? You know, bring them all in the back of the ambulance. So you have to get a neighbor. know, to come over and sit with the children while we, we take you and your child to the, to the hospital. but usually the, the, the scenario really is that, uh, there is cooperation. nothing wants the best, uh, for both people than the paramedics, that's for sure.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:What's your advice to us in that situation how to prepare for that so that we can do that if the time comes Because obviously you've had a lot of practice learning to stay calm and grounded in emergency situations, but it's hard.
John Moir:you, you know, they, they even teach us, you know, to when the big calls come. It's just slow your breathing down, long breaths in, long breaths out, and just try to relax, get the shoulders down. And it makes a lot, big difference. In fact, when I drive a car now, I still do this long, slow breathing when I'm driving. It's just, uh, um, yeah, when traffic gets a little hyped up, I just do that slow breathing. And it's just like, you're so chilled. But I suppose you also have years of experience, but they teach that to us. As well, like, as a part of our CME continuing medical education. Lots of times, when it's a, you know, we call it a Code 4 call where the lights and sirens are necessary to get traffic moving. And, um, but, you know, people are on their cell phones. I don't know how many times I've seen people talking, driving through the intersection. Just as we're coming up to it and completely still don't recognize that we're there. They're so lost in their phone call. And so they talk about, you know, don't, use your, handheld devices. It's, it's true. There's been so many times I've seen that. Or texting. And we, we followed one guy. Who is just waving back and forth. And, we thought he was, driving under the influence.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Mm hmm.
John Moir:we called for police to come meet us he just happened to pull into a gas station. The police officer pulled in. We pulled in. And, uh, he said, no, I was just texting, you know. And so, but we thought he was completely under the influence. Uh, another time, same thing. This car was going back and forth and, I think that we knew it was a woman and, maybe there was a child in there. but it was just the same thing, so we put our lights on. We went up and I explained to myself, we're, we're not police. Uh, it's, it's not a, a criminal stop. It's just that we saw that you're weaving back and forth and I was concerned that it was a medical emergency. And all it was, was that the child was misbehaving and wasn't strapped into a seat. We, paramedics really do care deeply for, for your children.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:And I would say in all of my experiences it shows. as I've said before, I feel, heartfelt thanks to The people who have helped with my kiddo and and that's why I had you on Because I don't think I think people think of their support team in terms of who they can which doctor they can choose which friends They can spend time with But I really think of all of those people who were there for an emergency, and I think of people like you, I think of people like the one man who lives in my neighborhood and I try to just imagine like, I know you're out there waiting to help if we need to and I find it comforting and soothing.
John Moir:So often the intimacy That's created by being vulnerable, with others. this is kind of the same experience on the job. when you really are caring for a stranger, or going into their home and, and you can see that they, they really truly need help.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:it helps so much to hear that it's not just, day after day, one after the other, that you have these memories of these people that stuck with you and how much you care and that it, it affects you too. There's vulnerability on both sides. It's not just us.
John Moir:Oh
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:I,
John Moir:yeah.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:what you said about the shared vulnerability, um, and I was wondering if you have observations through seeing so much vulnerability through your life, what you've learned people in, in their vulnerability.
John Moir:I think any, anybody who, who comes in contact with somebody being vulnerable makes it so much easier for, for us to be vulnerable. And, it's, it's not a weakness. I think some people, who are a little bit more shut down and, carrying a lot of, a lot of baggage. wouldn't even recognize the vulnerability in people. And, um, it's a, it's a wonderful place to be with a stranger. In fact, there's nothing I enjoy more than speaking with a stranger that I have no idea. Don't do the small talk. Ask them about their life, you know. It could be a 15 minute conversation. I sat at a sandwich stand with this fella and, I just said, do you have any children? And he says, yeah, I have a daughter. I said, well, what was it like being a father to her? What was she like? And this whole story came out. And it turned out that she had passed recently. the, the honesty of the questions and the, and the curiosity about this man, his life, and then his daughter, he shared so much about her. when he left, he was just touching the ground., Being vulnerable is a great, asset. And bringing it back to grief, It really only comes from people who had some experience in their lifetime or who have had the parents or relatives or people around them who modeled what it is to, work with one's grief. And I think it just allows you to slide into that, that own, that place of vulnerability so easy.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:What would you say about the ways that you see that grief showing up for people after this type of an experience, like after a medical emergency? I know you're not always with your patients, obviously after their well again and the grief hits, but do you have any insight on that? What it, what it might look like when it arrives?
John Moir:yeah, actually, I did a, a call. for a lady who was, feeling anxious. So, when we got there, this lady, brought us into her home. And, she said, it's, not for me, it's my sister. And I could see that there was a hospital bed at the end of the living room. It was empty. and then her sister came out. And her sister was, was palliative. And they knew her time was, was coming. but right now, she, she, the, the sister, our patient, was saying, I just don't feel myself. I'm just feeling a little bit anxious. so we, tried some, some exercises, you know, like breathing, just to see if that would help. cause she really didn't, look serious at all. we talked a little bit, got some history and said, Okay, well, let's take you up and, and, and get you looked at anyways. And so, she started to, look, all of a sudden got, became weaker. no real complaint, but, then we needed to get her out from, from the house, and on the way out to the ambulance. We realized, uh, I think she's just went into cardiac arrest so we got her in the back. She was a little bit, responsive. I had her sister up front with me. I told her, I said that, we're not sure what's going on other than I think that you need to prepare yourself for the worst. And, uh, and I think that it might be her time. And so we, we got up there and I think, carried out, we started to do CPR. We weren't far from the hospital. and so they, brought her in. they just, uh, let the, the sister stay with her, sibling just let her quietly pass. And it must have been, oh, several months after that, we got a call if we could go and, see this, meet with this lady. she wanted to talk to us. And, I'd never had a call like that. And, uh, so, we're taken off the board. And, they said, yeah, go and meet with her. So we got there. We could see a pad on the table. And the first thing we thought is that, she said, I just need to know what happened. we're thinking, is she going to try, is she going to sue
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Right.
John Moir:did we do, you know? But what she wanted, was that there were so many missing pieces of what took place between her and her sister, with us. There's all these blocks that she has no memory whatsoever. And she didn't even know how many people were in the room. So you get this tunnel vision. And, uh, and she just needed to have the complete, uh, uh, experience. So it's clear in your mind. Otherwise, I think that people will start putting in other truths, and it might not be the true story, and it's all there's something very negative that didn't happen whatsoever.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:They have a need to understand what happened,
John Moir:Yeah, yeah, and so, and that's what happens like when we get this tunnel vision, um, know, people in the street or witness a crime or something, they'll tell, what the person looked like. It's, you're a psychologist, you must be aware of some of those studies,
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Mm hmm.
John Moir:that, very seldom do our stories actually match the video camera,
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Mm hmm.
John Moir:uh, recordings.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Yeah, and it's, it's for those listening. It's that, that nervous system shift that I talk about all the time when we go into fight or flight and our body thinks there's danger, literally our field of vision narrows because we're focused in on the perceived threat. And so we're missing so much information around us. And you know, the blood flow is cut off to our areas of our brain that do our higher order thinking. So we're, we're literally not experiencing the world in the same way. So that, I didn't think of that in that context though, John, that then yes, people are going to be missing these big pieces of that emergency that they went through. That's so important for them to know, both in this example that you gave to to process. the experience, but then also for us to learn from the experience. What, what did I do and what did they do when they came here? What did they notice that we might not have noticed? But at the time that would be good information for us to have moving forward that we did not take in because we were in fight or flight.
John Moir:I mean, I've seen, I've seen a lot of, kids through different injuries, totally unexpected. And, I just can't put myself into that, that little shoes. And, I experienced remotely anything like that with, with my three children. And, I've seen it in others. I just can't imagine what it would be like for your people, you know, who have had, really serious bouts of, anaphylaxis with their, with their children.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:And it's such a tricky thing you've seen the worst of the worst and you've seen many people pass away or been with them as they did. And while that is a real risk for us, it is a real possibility that obviously is terrifying. It's so very rare, right? So it's that contrast of the real threat versus, it feeling like that's going to happen every time. And very, very rarely is that actually the case. Thanks to allergies being a very treatable condition, unlike a lot of other things. like in my case, I've had some ambulance calls, but always, we gave the epi, and then we called the ambulance, luckily, you know, I'm not tooting my own horn, but I had that education and knowledge, so, most of the time, by the time anyone arrived at my house, my kiddo was cracking jokes, and, okay and stable,
John Moir:Yeah, it's very few and far between that the life threatening incidents come.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:thank you for all of the work that you did for all of the people, that you cared for all those years. How does it feel to know how many lives you impacted and saved doing that for so many years?
John Moir:There's so much in the, in the, in that chain of care, from dispatchers that give out the calls and, maybe some first response crews that get there before. We'd get there like, fire, or a police or just a neighbor, you know. And so all of that contributes to a well being of a, of a person. I
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:have teared up so many times during this conversation with you and so thank you because to talk about even other people's experiences and stir up our own experiences is so emotional. So I want to normalize that for listeners. If, They're having that experience too. I bet a lot of people will skip this episode, and that's okay. But, you're just such a right person to talk to us about this in a productive way, and that it's okay for those feelings to be coming up, right? And that grief to be seen and experienced.
John Moir:Well, thank you for that, and thank you for your, thoughts. I don't know if I could do your job., Even in EMS, it, uh, you know, if it's quiet, it's, it's quiet. You know, you put your feet up and if you can get an hour of sleep that's what we're gonna do. Uh, but, you guys just go all day and, day in and day out, you listen to things that people Want to have fixed and, all the trauma that comes with it and, how badly they were treated by family members or extended family or, abused. I mean, it just goes on and on. And, we get it in, in bouts. Whereas, yourself and, people like yourself that, are there hearing these, these stories, these long histories it's hard not to be by that. And, we always think that, PTSD and, trauma is, is by people who are in the experience. But, boy, I can't imagine how affected, um, people like psychologists and, psychotherapists, are caring so much, And especially if they have their own trauma, it's always being reminded of what they may have experienced in the past or they thought they had dealt with,
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Right.
John Moir:so.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Thank you for saying that because, you know, like me, many other therapists end up specializing in something that hits home for them. So, it is difficult. When we're in a good spot, it feels great to help people. And then when we have something tough, it can be tough. So, thank you for acknowledging that. But, like you're saying, I hope people listening know we care, too, so deeply. You know, it's, it's a professional relationship, but just like you really care and we think of people and we carry that with us as well in the same way that you're describing that you do.
John Moir:yeah, yeah. So, Bravo.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Yeah. Well, thank you. It's, thank you for saying that, John. please tell everybody where they can find your podcast, Urban Grief Shamans and tell them where they can find out about the workshops that you and Patricia do, your grief circles.
John Moir:Yeah. The podcast is, urban grief shamans.com. you can find it on any podcast place like, Apple or, Spotify or whatever. It's talks a lot about grief and that was the purpose of it. The workshops are, are not virtual. They're, they're live. And this year, if you're in the New York State area, it's just going to be over in Port There's
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:We do have quite a few Canadian listeners, too. Mm hmm.
John Moir:Yeah, it's going to, it's a, it's going to be at Jacobs House. It's a residential. So three meals a day. It starts Friday and finishes on Sunday. it's really amazing. they can find me at, Uh, soulfulenergymedicine. com,
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:I'll make sure I put that in the notes would you leave people with last thoughts on if they didn't realize they were grieving and now they've heard this conversation and they realize they have some grief to, uh,
John Moir:I would
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:process?
John Moir:highly recommend, you know, getting on Amazon, ordering a book from Francis Weller, The Wild Edge of Sorrow. it's it's an eye opener, and there's, there's a lot of, programs, like Weller has, some, video, sessions, like pre recorded material, that's on YouTube, but start educating yourself about it and I can't think of a better, mentor than, for everybody to just, pick up Weller's book and, and read it. Yeah, it's, the way he speaks is the way he writes you'll be amazed at what you'll discover about yourself.
Dr. Amanda Whitehouse:Well, thank you for sharing him with me, too, because I never would have read it if it weren't for you and Patricia there's so much to tackle and this is such a huge topic. Thank you so much for taking the time to really dive into stuff so deeply. It's, I think it's helpful.
Three action steps are number one, go and listen to John's podcast if his voice resonates with you. I know I love listening to his thoughts and his perspectives on things, and I really think that if you enjoy this episode that you'll enjoy his podcast. Again, it's Urban Grief Shamans. It's very easy to find on any podcast platform or urbangriefshamans.com. Number two. As John recommended, find Francis Weller's book The Wild Edge of Sorrow. I will put a link to it in the notes. Number three, take a moment to think about what John mentioned about what emergency personnel might be looking for in your home, in the case of emergency, john mentioned the vial of life, which is a set of paperwork and a vial to contain all your important information along with a sticker that would be placed at the front door to indicate that you have that. And traditionally it's placed on the refrigerator for them to find.. It's easy to find at vialoflife.com or think of a place that might make sense to you in terms of where your or your child's epinephrine is stored, and keeping all of that information in the same carrying case so that it would be all in one place and with you in the case of an emergency. For me, knowing that I have all that information gathered in a place that makes sense and is really easily accessible and easy for anyone to find, gives me peace of mind, and I think for you, it will too. the content of this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have any questions about your own medical experience or mental health needs, please consult a professional. I'm Dr. Amanda White house. Thanks for joining me. And until we chat again, remember don't feed the fear.
