Food Allergies, Dating, and Intimacy with Sloane Miller, Part 2

In Part 2 of our series on dating and intimacy with food allergies, author and mental health professional Sloane Miller joins me to explore the emotional and social dimensions of navigating relationships while managing food allergies.

We delve into the complexities of identity, self-trust, communication, and vulnerability that individuals with food allergies may encounter in romantic contexts. Our conversation also focuses on how parents can proactively prepare their children for these experiences through early empowerment, fostering resilience and self-advocacy.

Please note: This episode contains discussions on mature topics, including dating, intimacy, and emotional well-being in the context of food allergies. These subjects may not be suitable for young children. Listener discretion is advised. 

Join us as we consider:

• Emotional challenges and worries about dating with food allergies
• The importance of teaching consent and boundaries from a young age
• Strategies for effective communication about allergies in relationships
• Parental guidance on building children's confidence and preparedness

This episode aims to empower individuals with food allergies to navigate their personal relationships confidently and safely. Whether you're navigating these experiences yourself or guiding your child through them, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice.

To support this discussion, Dr. Whitehouse has created a free handout summarizing the key takeaways from this two-part series. Listeners can request this resource by contacting her through Instagram at @thefoodallergypsychologist or through her website: Connect — Amanda Whitehouse Phd.

You can find Sloane Miller at www.allergicgirl.com and buy her books here: Bookshop.org US including Allergic Girl Guide to Dating a book by Sloane Miller - Bookshop.org US

Special thanks to Kyle Dine for permission to use his song The Doghouse for the podcast theme!
www.kyledine.com

Find Dr. Whitehouse:
-thefoodallergypsychologist.com
-Instagram: @thefoodallergypsychologist
-Facebook: Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, Food Allergy Anxiety Psychologist
-welcome@dramandawhitehouse.com

Transcript

Speaker: 0:01

Welcome to the Don't Feed the Fear podcast, where we dive into the complex world of food allergy anxiety. I'm your host, Dr. Amanda Whitehouse, food allergy anxiety psychologist and food allergy mom. Whether you're dealing with allergies yourself or supporting someone who is, join us for an empathetic and informative journey toward food allergy calm and confidence..

0:23

Welcome back to Don't Feed The Fear for part two of our discussion about relationships, dating physical intimacy, and safely managing our food allergies. We were so fortunate to have Dr. Sicherer on for the first portion of this discussion to talk about all of the medical information and research and professional advice about what is safe and what can pose a safety risk for food allergies. And I'm so appreciative to him for sharing his recommendations and modeling how he discusses that with his patients. Sloane Miller and I were left after that conversation with so many thoughts about what we feel it's important to discuss a nd share on the mental health and the social emotional side of that conversation. So Sloane is so gracious with her time, she is back with me today so that we can continue to discuss and process this topic. And I wanna give a little bit of a longer introduction for Sloane today. It's been amazing to get to know her, and I'm really excited to share her voice with all of you here on my podcast because. She has so much to share with you. She talked briefly last time about her book Allergic Girl: Adventures in Living Well With Food Allergies. This is one of the first books that I read about food allergies, and it was so helpful to me in terms of understanding what life might actually look like for someone living with food allergies. Obviously, the best tips and insights from someone who's been living with food allergies her entire life, and Sloane's just a very insightful Communicative person. Sloan has degrees in both mental health and coaching, she sees clients and provides different kinds of support depending on what their needs are. She doesn't just work with food allergies, but of course, I'm thankful for her voice and her experience on that topic here with us today.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 2:00

So let's get started in talking about sex and food allergies. Yeah.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 2:04

Where has your head been since our last conversation? We both had so many questions. There's a lot that we wanted to say that wasn't necessarily the medical end of things, but we just wanna talk about the how's and the experience. It's

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 2:16

a very complex topic. There's so much that goes into it. Family values, religious values. Socioeconomic values, access to information, access to medical care, choice, and also orientation, sexual orientation. Right. If we look at the spectrum of LGBTQIA plus, which includes people that are feeling asexual, not sexual polysexual, right? And the young people. Are grappling with like, who are they? They within this spectrum, they don't know and they're figuring it out. Mazeltov to them, figure it out. However, like then layer in, oh, exposure to your allergen. You've been told by your parents, by media, by doctors can be harmful. At the very least, fatal at the worst. Mm-hmm. That's what I was thinking of, that. This is

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 3:24

very, very complex. Yeah. The world is different now, but do you mind talking about what it was like to enter into that phase of life for yourself? I mean, obviously all of those factors don't apply to you in the same way that we're opening up to the wide range of experience, but do you mind sharing just what that was like when you were young? Um,

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 3:44

sure. My childhood, there was no EpiPen. What I was told by my allergist is, avoid your allergen. If you have exposure, go to the hospital. I remembered my first. My, well, the first, um, my first exposure to tree nuts and anaphylaxis, I remembered when I was two. I had had, um, previous allergic reactions when I was six months old that I don't remember, but I do remember the, the 2-year-old one. And that really informed my anxiety around exposure to my allergens. However, there was no conversation about smooches and allergens. Mm-hmm. So I. I didn't have that anxiety about a first kiss. Um, and I wanna layer in here that at that time in the eighties there, the, the American diet was very different than it is currently in 2025. Um, we're talking 30, 40 years ago, right? Somewhere in that range. Um, as I've said, there were two types of m and ms. Peanut and plain, and I'm not allergic to peanuts. So, um, there, there was no almond milk in the, or cashew milk in the supermarket. Uh, you know, maybe there was a nut loaf in a vegan restaurant in San Francisco, but that wasn't like a common situation. So kids were not walking around with granola bars studded with Brazil nuts. That didn't happen. They weren't snacking on pistachios during soccer practice. None of that was happening. So there was no, there really was no concept of like, I need to have a conversation with a boy. And I'm cis head. So there, so as a, as a woman, um, or as a young girl, I was not, I was thinking about boys and there was no, they weren't eating my allergens. They weren't eating. Um, you know, I. They just weren't eating nuts the way that they are now. It just, they just weren't right. So, um, and actually I was just thinking, I mean, there are certainly other cultures that, um, do have a lot of nuts in their foods. Like if they were, let's say Persian, let's say, um, anywhere from like the Middle East and at home, they probably would've had a lot of nuts. Um, but even, for example, uh, my best friend, one of my best friends in, in like junior high was Venezuelan and she always had her afterschool snacks. Were like, were rice pudding made by hand? Delicious. And also, um, empanadas, beef empanadas. Did I ever ask what was in the beef empanada? No. Did I assume it was just beef? Yes. Was it Yes. So, you know, although I was 13, right? Eating beef empanadas made by scratch. Yum, yum, yum. So, so I think I just wanna like layer that out there that it didn't exist, right? It started to exist in my twenties and thirties and that is when I started my blog. Um, uh, in my thirties because I was like, things have changed. And now I do need to have these conversations with partners about like, what are you eating? And if you eat this and expose me to it, there will be a problem. So. Very fortunately, my brain is already formed. I'm a fully formed adult. When I, when I, it, there was a necessity to have an adult conversation about, um, consent, about, uh, who are you? Who am I? These are my medical needs. What's your reaction, you know, to this potential partner. So, yeah, I mean, in college, again, there were, EpiPens didn't exist and they were, and once they did exist in the mid eighties, they were not prescribed. So my allergist, every year there was no prescription. So it wasn't until I went in the nineties overseas for college, part of my college education, and I asked my allergist, and this is in my book, allergic Girl, but I asked my allergist, I said. Should I have an EpiPen? I had heard about it somehow and I was like, should I have one? And he was like, yeah, sure. Couldn't hurt so

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 8:23

casual. Why not? Wow. Yeah. Yeah, so, so in short, I. I

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 8:30

had it real good, like I didn't think about it, but like when it came to it, I, I, I had other concerns around sexuality and, um, and, and first kisses and second kisses and kind of all of, and intimacy. It wasn't so much impacted by a food allergy question unless there was a boy I liked and I wanted to kiss him, and I saw him eating my allergen. Which really didn't happen now that I think about it, um, until much later.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 9:06

Yeah. Well, let's talk about, if you don't mind, what that sound sounded like for you as a fully mature adult trying to enter into that, and then maybe we can translate it down. You and I both see clients with food allergies. We can talk about what we're seeing with them and what we tell them, um, how to do that, do those conversations.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 9:24

Yeah. I, I, as you were asking it, I was just like kind of rolling through my mental Rolodex of like, when really did I start having these conversations and, and I. Um, when I was sexually active in college, that's when I started having them. And they were very straightforward. I'm allergic to this, please don't eat that. Or, I'm gonna be nervous about kissing you. So I didn't even have like, the medical information. There was, you know, it would be decades before Dr. ER's, uh, I think it was 2006, study about saliva, allergens. A peanut allergen and saliva came out. Um. But decades before that, my conversation was, these are my allergens. Please don't eat that. If you eat that, I'm not gonna feel comfortable. There might, something might happen. And that was a gut reaction. And I remember just as you were asking that, I remember very specifically having that, um, conversation with my college boyfriend and he, uh, who, and this was over in Europe, and he was like, okay. It was not a deal at all. And he, um, I cooked, I also cook and I'd been cooking, um, I was a vegetarian starting at 16. And so my mother at that point, I. Was like, I don't know what to cook for you. And I was like, that's a really good question. I'm gonna look it up. And I read a whole bunch of books, um, about vegetarian cooking, and I started cooking more at home and making meals for the family that were really enjoyable. And so I was doing that in college as well. And, um, so that probably also cut out some anxiety because I was cooking my own food when possible. Mm-hmm. And again, this was, there were no 5 0 4 plans. There were, um, the colleges. Said, it's mandatory that you eat our food. And I was like, uh, no, I'm not going to. There was no dietician on campus. There was no one to discuss this with other than, you know, the dean to be like, no, I'm not eating that. And they're like, sorry, that's our policy. And it's like, okay, I'm gonna pay for food. I'm not eating. And that's how we handled it, you know, I was like, I'm just gonna, you know, I, I got housing with a kitchen. Um, uh, luckily and. And I cooked my own food and I kept a fridge in my room. I mean, this, again, this was just, I just handled it. Um, and there, because there was no discussion. It was just like, okay, the, it was basically a, a more or less of a shrug from the administration. As long it, it was safe. I didn't like have a hot plate in my room. Um. But yes, I did have that conversation. So that, and that would be sub 25. So my brain is still forming, but the conversation I had was, these are my medical needs. And, um, and the response was, was very positive. There was no pushback. There was no, oh, are you sure? Or are allergies real or. There was no, there was none of that. Mm-hmm. And, um, so I also had very positive experiences. I didn't have any resistance to that. So that was, I, that's an initial kind of college experience. And then after college dating SSA, it was really similar. I am a direct. Talker. It definitely, that's a family value to speak clearly and directly with clarity. And I brought that into dating and romantic relationships about these are my needs. And it was very well received. It was, I I, and again, I wrote about this in my book that in my years of dating and I started dating when I was 12, I. Um, I, I have, there's one guy that I can recall in my thirties who was a jerk. One. It's a lot of dating. Mm-hmm. And a lot of decades of dating and like, just have like one guy be a jerk. Mm-hmm. So, and again, I'm speaking from a heterosexual perspective as a woman dating men for the most part. In fact, for 99% of it, I said, these are my medical needs. Um, uh, please don't eat my allergen or I don't know, you know, something bad might happen. Right? That was my gut feeling without a study. And boyfriends were like,

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 14:19

okay. What do I need to do? Yeah, I think, you know, we had this big, long conversation, like you said, the, all of the facts and the science, but really the, the way you said it is the bottom line. We shouldn't have to prove, we shouldn't have to come into these conversations equipped with the data about how long and how many hours. Like as the way you described it the first time is just, I'm not gonna be comfortable around you if you're eating this. And it's, it's not just about what the science says, it's about your comfort level and a partner showing you. Respect for your boundaries that you're trying to set with them. I know you and I both felt like that's the bigger topic here, is that this is part of consent. It's just another layer or factor of consent that should be respected as it should in every other way. And if that's not happening in relationships, kind of like the jerk in your thirties, that's a really good clue. That's an early sign of a red flag from that person that they're not respecting the concept of your consent period. A hundred percent.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 15:17

100%. Yeah. And I, I think when we talk about consent and boundaries, that's where it gets murky for a lot of people.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 15:30

Right?

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 15:30

Heterosexual, L-G-B-T-Q-I-A, it's, it's not about gender. It really is about. Knowing what your boundaries are, right? Knowing what you want, or even having an inkling and communicating that clearly. And then also being clear about where is your, uh, where is your boundary? Like if that person was like, oh, but a little bit won't hurt, then what's your response? Mm-hmm. Um, if they're like, oh, my parents told me allergies aren't real, what's your response? Right. And. And, and parents aren't teaching kids that'cause they don't know it. I don't think you're a parent. Have you talked to your, we're also a very knowledgeable parent.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 16:18

People understand now and they might not understand the nuances of. I, I wanna feed your child, right? Like, what can I make when you come over? And that'll be safe? And it used to be, thank you. We'll bring your, our own food. I've never had anyone, you know, similar to what you said, I've never had anyone just be outright like, oh, allergies aren't real. I, I very, very rarely, is it dismissive, doubtful, or, or do people challenge me about it? They just. Need more information. And yet, like I said, with the kissing conversation, if we don't give them the specific information, well what are, where are the studies that say, you know, trust me, we see it happen. That's all the other answer. Well, I think that is the food

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 16:54

allergic person's fear. Mm-hmm. That I just voiced. Yes. That the pushback is gonna be like, you're making this up. This is in your head. Um, it's not that bad. Yeah. And specifically coming from a dude to a woman, you're being hysterical. The old, you're being hysterical line. Mm-hmm. Right. It it's not that bad. Yeah. Um, I see this in my practice with, uh, parents in a, in a male female household, a heterosexual household. The father typically telling the mother, you're overreacting to our child's food allergy needs or the, the food allergy. Um, uh, you know, usually it's the mother who's witnessing anaphylaxis. The father doesn't see it and says, oh, you're overreacting. And so I think that fear definitely translates to your point, how often does it happen in reality? In my experience, one time out of. Of dating,

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 17:55

right.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 17:55

Of and all kinds of dudes. These are not like, I just date like one kind of person blown over and over. Like these are different dudes, different countries. Yeah. Like these are all kinds of people and it was just one guy who was, who was kind of jerky. Um, in my practice, this is the fear that I'm hearing Yes. Is, is the different kinds of rejection. That I will receive if I put my needs out there.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 18:25

Yes. And I think to us as adults, it's so much easier as it is with everything else, to look those scenarios and say, well, if he says that he's a jerk, don't date him. We just, we kind of dismiss it. But that it's such a tender age in terms of any sort of rejection, any sort of difference that makes you stand out and feel like you don't belong. So I think as adults we really need to. Try to put ourselves back in those shoes and remember how vulnerable that is, because we're not wrong. Don't date that person if they don't respect your needs and your boundaries.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 18:56

That's, that's hindsight and context that kids do not have. And it's like, oh, well, but maybe if I explain it better, there's a lot again, and this is from a, a feminine perspective. Um. But there's a lot of like, well, if you know, maybe it was just that day, maybe they were cranky, that there's like a lot of excuse making for. Essentially bad behavior that should not be happening. And as parents, I imagine, and as adults, that's kind of like to watch a young person make excuses for another person's bad behavior is, and that it goes across the board. Mm-hmm. Across the board about consent and boundaries and any bad behavior that there should be. There's no excuse for it, and you certainly do not excuse another person on their behalf. Right. Do not excuse them. However that happens also. Yes, a lot.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 19:46

Yes. And it has to be sorted through by experience like everything else. Not just told by an adult. You and I were talking about learning to drive before we started chatting here. And just like that, you, you, I could tell my kid everything. Well, the gas pedals here and you have to turn the wheel like they have to do it for themselves in order to learn. And this is one of those things I think we have to be there to guide them. We have to create. An environment where they will talk to us, because we don't just shut them down and say, oh, just dump him, you know, oh, oh, he's a jerk. Just ignore him. Then they're gonna stop talking to us about it instead of, if we create this environment where it's open and we are guiding them and leading them in, into making their own decisions and taking ownership rather than still acting at 1418, like they should just listen to what we're telling them to do. They have to have agency over it.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 20:35

How do you as a parent, as a food allergy parent and as a mental health professional mm-hmm. How do you create that?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 20:45

Yeah. Well, I. I don't know about how well I'm doing as a parent. You can ask my kids.'cause it's always so different trying to put into action what you know. But anytime I talk about communication with parents and kids from a young age into teenage and adult, the two things I say are everybody needs to learn better listening skills, particularly when we become parents. I don't think we. Exercise the best listening skills, but I think that's true of people in general, right? We listen to respond. We want to give advice when people are talking to us about things, a lot of. Not helpful. Listening skills are normal in our society. I think so. I, I think everyone everywhere needs to learn better listening skills, and I'm guilty of that too. I'm not making fun of everyone. It's so hard when your kid comes to you and it's like every little heartbreak for them is multiplied for you as a parent. You wanna protect them from everything, especially when they're vulnerable because they have food allergies too, and we have to. Be open to their experience. We have to let them express it and make them feel seen and heard, not solve their problems for them. Which takes me into the second part. There's a book that I recommend for everyone, all ages. It's so old. It's, it's called How to Talk. So your kids will listen and listen, so your kids will talk and I think it should just be called How to Talk. So people. Listen and listen, so people will talk because it's all about what I was saying before. It's written in comic strip style, demonstrating how we go into conversations with our own agenda, taking action, trying to problem solve, and how much more effective it is when we put people in the driver's seat of their own situations. I'm here to support you. What do you think? Let's try that. And so a lot to me of parenting is that. Do you want me to help you come up with some ideas of what you can try? What have you thought of? What, what are some of the ideas you thought you might do or what have you thought you might say back to them? You know, and, and really just guiding them through teasing it out and thinking through it. And then sometimes trying it. What's easier with like, homework? Oh, okay, so you didn't do that report this time. You got an F. What do you think? We can learn from this and what might happen next time. And then allowing them to carry that action out and learn it for themselves. And that doesn't just teach the specific skills. It allows them to step into the driver's seat of their own life and feel like they're in charge. I can make decisions, I can adapt, and this person will be here to support me and I will turn to them.'cause they're not just gonna make me feel like I was wrong or I don't know anything by the way that they respond.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 23:16

I love that so, so much. And it is so underutilized, as you said. Mm-hmm. And you know, we're both trained listeners. Not everyone is a trained listener, and even the training that I had as a licensed social worker is different than than that kind of listening. Um, that kind of listening I learned in, uh, currently in, um, ICF professional coaching, which is more about, um, active listening and, and social work, listening. Very different kind of listening. Um, but I, I just wanna highlight. That what you said, and I wanna underscore it, is at a certain age, and there are, I'm sure you could do this from littles all the way on, um, appropriately, but the, the, and the, the deep value of saying to a child, let's reason this out together. What do you think you can do here? What would you like to try? What have you tried? What do you make of this situation? Where would you like to go here? What works best for you? I wanna add to that, the challenge of mistakes when it comes to a food allergy kid. And a parent who is watching that kid, and the kid themselves. And I think that's where this, if we go back to the driving metaphor. Right. Like mistakes, you know, like our are life and death in a car, right? Right. And that's why you want a lot of practice and a lot of practice in a safe space, right? Mm-hmm. A empty parking lot, a driveway, a culdesac, no other moving cars. So then you can, you know, you do not put a kid. On a major highway and say, okay, merge. You would never do that. And I have used this metaphor in my practice. I imagine you have to about like, where can you give your kids safe practice to have a mistake? Mm-hmm. There will be mistakes. They have to have mistakes. They will learn from mistakes. We all learn from mistakes. But when you're talking about food allergies and there's a prospect of fatality. If it's not a good mistake or not a learning mistake, like what happens? Right. And I think that's where everyone kind

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 25:52

of gets really shut down. Yes. And then I think avoids, and then to use the driving analogy, we're not really dealing until three or four days before the 16th birthday rather than through across time. Because in addition to gradually increasing the severity or the, or the challenge of the situation. It's over time. Right? It's, it's, yes. Little, little, little steps over time. Yes. You mentioned practicing in a car when you were 14. By the time you got to that point where you were actually behind the wheel, you were comfortable in the car and I think to Yes. We're really gonna ring everything out of this analogy that we can. That's true too. This doesn't start when, you know, like, I've got a 13-year-old, but we've been talking about this and he's been rolling his eyes and not wanting to hear about it for years now, and it's. Other similar situations that aren't necessarily about kissing, but it's about how do friends respond. All the things you're saying about mm-hmm. Gradual practice with where the stakes are a little bit lower.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 26:50

Yes. And, and parents have to allow for that. Mm-hmm. And kids want that. They wanna show mastery. They don't wanna have mistakes. However, we as adults know that they're going to have to have some to be like, okay, that's the wrong path to go down. Let me try this. And that includes emotionally, yes, I wanna date this person, they're a jerk. I wanna see if I can fix them. Right? And then they need to try and fix them. And then they need to see that that jerk is eating their allergen and then like coming up to kiss them. And they need to practice that boundary and either let themselves be kissed. And see what happens. And that's where the parents', you know, role and job is to make sure their kids understand their food allergy diagnosis.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 27:37

Mm-hmm.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 27:39

Have access to their medication. Yes. Know where it is, have access to a parent guardian, um, so they can coordinate if and when. Yes. Have an open line of communication if there's a mistake, so they don't feel embarrassed and, and shut themselves in a bathroom. Right. Which is also a very natural response by the by. Yeah. So I mean, there are so many layers of, of kind of pre-work. Yes, yes. Uh, there was a really interesting study maybe 10 years ago about the transfer of responsibilities. And it was asking allergists when did they think that should start? Mm-hmm. And essentially it was like by ages 13, which is Dr. What? Dr. Si mentioned. Yeah. The expectation is that kids are carrying their own medication. Now, I have to tell you, many kids in my practice, and many parents are still carrying the medication for their children into high school. What is the message that sends to the child? Yeah. So where does personal responsibility start? When does that come in? Obviously every family is different, every child is different, however.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 28:56

Mm-hmm.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 28:57

There are choices to be made. When are you going to start to transfer responsibilities? Emotional, physical, medical, to Yes. Your child, who is the one who is managing their health and their chronic condition of atopic disease. Right?

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 29:13

Every day. Right. And I always tell the parents that I'm working with, we have to always be in the moment and keep our child safe now and have our eyes forward on the goal, which is for them to be you, right? This fully, obviously independent, full life adult. The goal is not for us to be protecting them forever. And you mentioned a word that I love to use when I talk about this is the, is the layers. When we say transfer of responsibility, it's not this one big package that we hand over to them. There are many, many, many, many layers. People will talk about the Swiss cheese analogy. There are going to be holes in each layer, but if we have multiple ones, then there is protection. And layer one might be the way that I did it was we just have the epinephrine hanging by the back door, and my son had his own pouch that was kind of kid friendly for him to grab and put in the backpack. I was still carrying it, but he would grab it and put it in the backpack. Little did he know I already had one in there. Right. That's the layer. But he's, he's learning to grab it. I don't just. Trust that he's going to do it right. So then that's one layer that gets transferred over really young. And then, you know, there are other layers, layer after layer, like you said, safe adults wherever they go. Forms of communication. You talked about hiding in the bathroom. That's another layer that I've done with my son. Like I don't ever want you to be embarrassed to speak up to anyone around you if you need help. And I know there will be times that it will be hard to, and we do that. Safety signal For us, it's, it's a just a little emoji that we've agreed. If I ever send you this, it means come and get me right now, no questions asked. Right. And I will take the burden as the parent without you having to make an excuse to remove yourself from the situation. It's just another layer that, and another tool that I can provide to him to help him. Like you said, take the responsibility. Yes.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 30:57

Well said. I was, uh, I was also thinking, as I was actively listening, I was also thinking about transfer of responsibilities and that. At kindergarten, age four, I was carrying my inhaler in school. Now again, there, EpiPens didn't exist yet. Mm-hmm. Epinephrine existed. Let me just clarify. Epinephrine is a very, very old drug, world War ii, epinephrine as the emergency drug for anaphylaxis that has existed. It was an autoinjector that hadn't. Been created yet until, right. It was a vi and syringe before, right? Correct. Until it was called. Yeah. Um, but Right. But now you can inject yourself. So, um, but I had asthma starting at four and I was in kindergarten at age four. And, um, I have very distinct memories of carrying my inhaler because I had asthma. During the day, like, you know, they would run us around in gym class and I would've an asthma attack, like, and it was just very normal and I would just take my inhaler and, you know, and move on. Um, however, what I was thinking of is that I already as a 4-year-old had responsive medical responsibilities to myself and had to know when to use this and so. You know, just, just to, just to layer that in in terms of my own trajectory and kind of layering in. Bringing other medications around the world with me was like not a big deal.'cause I had already been carrying my inhaler since and using it. Mm-hmm. And knowing the signs of an asthma attack from a very, very young age. So there was like already a lot happening.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 32:41

You just reminded me of something that's so important. I know a lot of kids who carry and teenagers who carry their medication, but they still call mom if they think they might need to use it. They don't feel confident in deciding these are the symptoms. I know my body needs this. So I think that's another layer that's important to think about is actually, yeah, that is interesting. Do you see that with your clients? Yeah,

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 33:02

I'm, I'm trying to think. I was like, did I even go to the nurse's office? I'm sure I went to the nurse's office at some point. I mean, like, I was very friendly with the nurse. She was lovely. Like I was one of those kids that like absolutely hung out in the nurse's office. Um, but I was certainly empowered to take my inhaler.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 33:20

Mm-hmm.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 33:22

And let's look at that word. I was empowered to take my inhaler so. You know, how do you as a parent empower your child to trust their own body to know when they're having a reaction? Right? Because calling your parents when you're having a reaction, that is time, right? What if you can't, what if you can't reach them? Right? First of all, also, no cell phones existed. Like, let's, let's also knock this out. So I had to physically go to another building. Um, I grew up in the city, went to school in the city. I had the nurse was in one location. There were two buildings where, where my school was housed and the nurse was in the lower school. So, you know, if I was in gym in the upper school, I would have to, with my asthma attack, like go to the nurse's, talk to the nurse's office, which is crazy. Um, and then like, get care there, right. Um. I, but I, I'm just thinking now about like, yeah. I, I, I, I think that is a, such an important layer for a child to know and feel empowered to medicate themselves and also know that there's no downside. There's no downside to taking extra epinephrine. There's no downside to taking an inhaler. There's no downside. And I'm not a doctor. Speak to your allergist or your pediatrician. Uh, but there's, these are not addictive drugs. They are not, if you don't have the thing, they're not gonna do anything to you.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 34:49

Right. But there still is, and I think maybe that's another one of the layers to work on that really relates to this, but there is still is this fear around using epinephrine. I'm hoping that the needle free options are going to shift this, but people do hesitate to use it. They don't wanna have to use it, but obviously they're so safe. I think that's another thing that has to shift, and it starts really, really young. To everyone have this idea of that epinephrine is your best friend. Absolutely. Just go to it. Epi first, epi fast, always. And not to be afraid of it. Find security in it and know that I have it. I can use it whenever I want. It's okay if I use it and it turns out maybe I didn't need it. It's better to do that.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 35:30

I wanna layer in denial. Yes. So I am a hundred percent. Guilty of this? Mm-hmm. I don't know. Guilty is not the right word. However, this has certainly happened to me where I'm in the middle of an allergic response and I'm like, is this really happening? I can see it. I can feel it. There's still like, is this what it, I think it is? Is this progressing? Like, and I know. As, uh, because I was a child growing up with this, that I had many of those experiences where I'm having deep conversations with myself about what is happening to my body right now, and there's a lot of denial that comes into play. Yeah. Uh, so I wanna put that out there as, as a barrier to treatment. To self-treating. And that also might be why, you know, kids are, are told, call your parents to kind of check in. Or they think they need to check in, um, because they're not quite, you know, or this, I saw this. I can't tell you how many times in my practice children don't recall the first anaphylactic experience. They've been told about it, but they don't actually have a memory of it. Right. Or. It happened through testing and they haven't had a direct experience. So there's either some disbelief or denial that it's real or there's no memory of it, so it's doesn't seem real. Mm-hmm. Right. Again, because my first anaphylactic experience that I remember was at two. That was a very traumatic experience and I carried that forward. So I was very like, oh, don't wanna do that again. And I remember very distinctly what happened, um, including going to the hospital. Like it was not fun. So I'm fine. Thank you. Um, but I think for a lot of kids. Of this, the last, like say two generations, a lot of them either didn't remember a direct experience or it was through testing and they hadn't had a direct experience. So they were told by parents that this is what needs to happen. And so there is a layer of communication, disbelief, denial. Do I need this? Is it happening? Do I, you know, so there's right. I wanted to just bring that up.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 37:59

I, I appreciate it. I think it's a great point. How do you get yourself through it? How do you move through the denial when it's happening? So

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 38:08

I

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 38:08

check

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 38:09

in with my

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 38:09

safe

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 38:10

people. Mm-hmm. Do you see hives? I feel like I see hives, juicy hives. Um. I can call a doctor if I need to. I mean, I think I medicate. I, that's, that's the, that's the thing. I mean, ultimately I medicate. Mm-hmm. Um, and there are layers of medication too. So for asthma, I take the inhaler. Like there's, like, if I'm having even like a little, like a, even asthma shows up in multiple different ways and this get into too long of a conversation. But asthma I treat. Allergy depends.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 38:51

Mm-hmm.

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 38:51

Because like if it's a little itchy eye and it's like, you know, I don't know, a Polly day, I'm like, uh, do I do, do I wanna take an antihistamine and be kind of sleepy? Eh, it's localized. It's not going anywhere. Right. Um, it, if I believe I've had exposure to my allergen and I've ingested it, right. And I think I'm having some kind of response. I do a whole like body systems check. And, um, fortunately, usually it hasn't been anaphylaxis when it has been. I'm at the hospital immediately and um, and they've injected me with epinephrine and all the good drugs.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 39:33

Did I answer your question? You did. And it's making me,'cause I was thinking about, I feel that too, as a parent, what do I do? You have internalized. Through so many years of experience, what I think a lot of us do, I keep our two systems handout in physically in everywhere the epinephrine is stored because even though I know that in my head I'm not in my child's body like you are feeling it, but I. I need in that moment of denial, when the adrenaline kicks in, I pull that out. And if I can point here and point here, okay, we've got skin, we've got, yeah, two systems done, two systems done. And if I have a physical reminder in front of me, it's a little bit easier. That is another tool to empower. You don't need to call me and ask me if you're not sure. Pull out the sheet and look at it and you know, you know what you're feeling in your body, right? So, like you said, to learn to go through that decision making process yourself and to give kids tools to do it without us there. Seems like a good approach. I'm gonna add two

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 40:28

more layers to that. So I print mine out and it's on my fridge. Great. Um, and I go through it with my doctor every year, just like, has anything changed? Right. You know, changed my entire lifetime. But just curious, has it possibly changed? Um, I also share it with friends and family as an adult. My friends and family know what to look for. Or if I come in and I'm like, I'm in distress, do you hear this? Are you seeing this? You know, and they're like, yep. And I'm like, okay. And it's like just a very clear, um, uh, and safe people. So I talk about this in my book and what I've done is I have created around me safe community. And by safe I mean emotionally safe, right? I. So parents, partner, best friends, doctors who I can ask questions that, this might be a silly question, right? I can ask the doctor and be like, what do you think about this? Like, where do you stand on this? I can say to. Any of my safe emotional people. I, I feel like I'm having some anxiety around this, but also like, I feel like I might be symptomatic. Can we just sit for a minute while I do a systems check and like see what happened? I don't think I had exposure to anything. This could be anxiety, it could be unknown exposure. Can we just sit together? And the answer is yes. And I have talked with these people ahead of time. This isn't like in the moment. This is. Uh, you create a safe person by having these conversations when you are not having an emergency about what to do in case of an emergency, both physically, medically, and emotionally. And I. I talk about with my clients, um, depending on the age, either creating safe community around them or identifying safe community. If, uh, if I'm talking with someone in their twenties and thirties, we'll talk about who in your life is emotionally safe for you to talk about your anxiety with, but also if you're having anaphylaxis and you need a buddy, like who is that person? If you don't have a person, let's talk about creating one and then with Littles, um, and Littles being any age that has a friend group talking about how do you identify safe people? Mm-hmm. Um, how, how do you know that they're safe? How do you feel inside when you're with them? How do you wanna be treated? How do they treat you? What do you say? What do you actually need from them? This is gonna be my final point here is knowing and understanding your medical diagnosis is first and foremost you need to understand it. You are the one that's managing it for the rest of your life. Mm-hmm. What you're looking for is support. Don't need someone else to, I mean, maybe you would like someone else to give you the EpiPen, however you are fully capable of doing it. And it is. I had a, a client who at age. Let's see, how old was she? Maybe she was like 13 or 14. And she was going to her first school dance, and this was like the first kind of away home situation where there was gonna be food or allergens might be there. Her friends were gonna be there. And we talked through kind of all of the safety protocols that she had in place. And at the end of our safety protocol discussion, she said, it's okay. I have my own bath. And that is, I get chills every time I think about that. That is what I want for people with food allergies to understand and to fully believe and fully enact that you have your own back, both emotionally, physically, in intimate situations, in work situations, uh, emotionally and medically.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 44:30

That's perfectly said. We could talk about it for hours and, and most of it, what we're finding, which wasn't even our plan, is everything that's specific to this conversation about intimacy and relationships and, and physicality and food allergy safety really is about these bigger picture concepts that we're talking about that goes so deep and that the end result isn't just to. Have a boyfriend or have a spouse, right. It's about what you just said. It's about my identity as a person. Do I have my back? Do I know who I am and how to handle myself? And then obviously relationships are an important part of that. We talked about teens trying to sort that out. That's an important developmental stage. It's not just about if they can have a boyfriend or a girlfriend. It's about that process that's ongoing of sorting through who am I and developing an identity as a person. Yes. The

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 45:25

bigger statement is about having your own back and that knowing that you trust yourself to, make the best decisions with the information that you have at the time, that if something does happen, you know how to handle it, whether it is an, an emotional exchange. Mm-hmm. An intimacy exchange, a medical exchange, an accidental exposure. That you have the tools or know where you can get the tools in order to make the best decision that you can at the time. So having your own back I think is just a great overall thought to leave with. Perfect. That's what, that's what I would want for my clients. From littles all the way up to adults who are coping with food allergies to understand that they have their own back.

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 46:17

Great. That's perfect. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk about this. I love where the conversation took us that we didn't necessarily plan out. Thank

Sloane Miller, MFA, MSW, LMSW, ACC: 46:26

you. I, it was really interesting to walk down memory lane. I hadn't thought about it in a while about how many. Aspects of my childhood lead to, you know, young adulthood and all the different pieces and layers of me and, and medical me that added up to, um, a certain, a certain point. And so that's a, that was a fun one

Amanda Whitehouse, PhD: 46:51

memory lead for me. I appreciate you being willing to share it with us is helpful. Of course. Thank you.

46:57

Thank you so much again for joining us for part two of this conversation. Thank you so much to my guest, Sloan Miller for your idea and your correct insight that this is a really important topic to be discussing. Thank you again to Dr. Sicherer for joining us for part one of this conversation. I hope that this will be some helpful information If you want to keep learning, you can read Dr. Sicherer's book, the Complete Guide to Food Allergies in Adults and Children. You can read Sloane Miller's memoir Allergic Girl, and you can reach out to me for the free guide that I've created for you based on this series of talks to help you navigate these conversations and situations. You can access that by following me on Instagram at the Food Allergy Psychologist and messaging me asking for the free guide. Or you can visit my website at the food allergy psychologist.com and reach out to me through the contact option If you are finding this content helpful, it would mean so much to me if you would subscribe and follow the show. Give the show a review, and share it with other people who might benefit from it too.. I appreciate you listening, and we will talk again soon. the content of this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only, and is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment. If you have any questions about your own medical experience or mental health needs, please consult a professional. I'm Dr. Amanda White house. Thanks for joining me. And until we chat again, remember don't feed the fear.